ok i was thinking of sumthing that would be cool is to have a like 13000 rpm reving motor for road racing. like a lil mini f1 honda. i was wondering what it would take. i know balancing of the crank. rods to hold it. i dont know bout what compression u would need to run to get that goal. also sum major headwork to flow all the air. then the cams to make power that high. i seen like comp cams have them i think it was them. not saying i would use those prolly have sum custom ones made. just curious what u would need to make it possible. just curious.

Dave

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by duckmanEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok i was thinking of sumthing that would be cool is to have a like 13000 rpm reving motor for road racing... i dont know bout what compression u would need to run to get that goal. also sum major headwork to flow all the air. then the cams to make power that high.

Dave</TD></TR></TABLE>

took out some words but the comrpession doesnt effect revability at least fromw ut i know. the rod to stroke ratio does. also the cam making power past a certain point. and also getting the valvespring and stuff to take it.

you can get vtec killer cams they get rid of vtec but make power from 8-12k or so im not too sure but its up there. you would also need special valvesprign and retainer the f1 guys use pneumatic (air) solenoid and stuff im not sure how it really works to open up the valves i dont know too much maybe someone else in come in. maybe i shouldnt talk if i dont know too much but no one else is posting maybe someone will go off on me starting a discussion

imo wut the point revving that high tends to give some problems id say save all the hassle and shift at 9k with an aftermarket set of valvesprign and the rod ratio and most of the b-series motors can take the beating but your call. is this car going to be daily driver if so a cam making power that high might not make too much power down low but i believe their is a guy running vteck killer and itbs on the street i blieve is name is len but u need to tune it damn good for it to run rite on the street.

 

as far as compression i just thought u need more. like bike motors have pretty high c.r. so i thought u would need it. as far as cams go the crane came make a set dont know how good they are (Race Only Roller Cam super charged / nitrous profile. 50 years of Crane Cams building race champions in NHRA and IHRA pay off for you with power and torque to give you a winning car. Check valve to piston clearance. RPM range 5,000-13,000). I just thought it would sound awesome going down the straight away hearing a car pushing 12500 rpms. i know there is so much wear and abuse it would take. also it would be a straight track car if i would ever do sumthing like that. i was just thinking of it and wondered what it would take

 

start with civic CVCC
strip the hell out of it
put in a built honda race bike engine
and then you can rev all you want

 

ya i was thinking about that but i thought bout tq. those bike motors dont have to much of it, but ya i thought of that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by duckmanEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ya i was thinking about that but i thought bout tq. those bike motors dont have to much of it, but ya i thought of that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

dont need much tq when your car weighs like 1000 lbs.

 

Theoretically 13,000 would be impossible on a production motor such as a B series not because of weak components but because of the extreme heat generated at such RPM. The metals used in today's motors cant maintain tolerances during that intense of a heat storm.

Also, if you take a B16A which has a relatively square R/S from factory, you will always have a really bad secondary vibration from the rotating assembly mainly because of the 4 cyl. design. Balancing helps reduce this but from what ive read, it is extremely difficult to totally eliminate because of the geometry.

You would need to have some pretty good compression because even at 7000 RPM, there is tons of force sucking the piston up from the vacuum and crank counterweights but to make that piston U-turn and shoot down takes twice the force.

If youre really intent on attempting a build....research on destroked motor setups. I believe Bisi (bisimoto) could shed some light on this theory a little better than i could. Hopefully this helped a little bit

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mastarolla &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Theoretically 13,000 would be impossible on a production motor such as a B series not because of weak components but because of the extreme heat generated at such RPM. The metals used in today's motors cant maintain tolerances during that intense of a heat storm.

Also, if you take a B16A which has a relatively square R/S from factory, you will always have a really bad secondary vibration from the rotating assembly mainly because of the 4 cyl. design. Balancing helps reduce this but from what ive read, it is extremely difficult to totally eliminate because of the geometry.

You would need to have some pretty good compression because even at 7000 RPM, there is tons of force sucking the piston up from the vacuum and crank counterweights but to make that piston U-turn and shoot down takes twice the force.

If youre really intent on attempting a build....research on destroked motor setups. I believe Bisi (bisimoto) could shed some light on this theory a little better than i could. Hopefully this helped a little bit</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good points. The toyota formula atlantic 4ag motor is the first thing that came to my mind when i saw this post. Same bore/stroke as a b16, in an open wheel formula car, and its max redline is only 9500 with a 12.7:1 max compression ratio. They make 250hp 1.6l NA.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 743power &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Good points. The toyota formula atlantic 4ag motor is the first thing that came to my mind when i saw this post. Same bore/stroke as a b16, in an open wheel formula car, and its max redline is only 9500 with a 12.7:1 max compression ratio. They make 250hp 1.6l NA.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was aiming for a high redline on my current build and were hoping for 10,500.

We dyno tested the jun3 cams and found them to make power in a stock ported GSR head to 10,000 then shut it down (It sounded like a jet airplane and people on the street and sidewalk turned to see what was up)... Im using a fully ported B16 head with the same cam and valvetrain setup.

Another note on the original topic, the cam angles and peak lift points are crucial to high RPM operation. Too aggressive of ramp angles can be prone to float valves much easier while a lower lift mild "ramped" cam will yield less air flow for that high of engine speed.

If you notice, a lot of Formula 1 motors are only like 3.0L (FIA regulation) but V8 and V12? I'll see if i can contact bisi and scrounge up some info on the destroked setups.


Modified by mastarolla at 10:52 PM 9/11/2004

 

more info would be cool..i want to build a high rpm road race motor someday.