I got my car on the dyno again, first thing that was done was fuel pressure adj from 39psi to 43, ran it, it was below 10:1 AFR, he made fuel adjustments on the VAFC, still ran like ****, the next run was 12.0:1 AFR, next the intake cam advanced (CTR) +2 marks on the cam gear, Fired it up, and I heard a real loud knocking from 2k-4k, sounded like valves slapping pistons.. (CTR pistons) / or really bad spark knock. shut it down. Set cams back to 0/0, fired it up, KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK... Bottom end is being pulled apart soon to find out what actually went wrong - I'm thinking it had something to do with spark knock. Anybody have opinions? I'll get some pics soon.

Looks like i'll be replacing the bearings.. has anybody heard good things about ACL bearings? I was using OEM hondas, but I heard some good things about ACL.

Edit: I'm replacing with ACL bearings - i'll post when I figure out exactly what went wrong.





Modified by LSVTEC 91 Civic at 10:10 PM 9/6/2004

 

what cams are you running?

 

CTR intake, Si Exh. Edit: Oil Pressure was good too...

 

what I wanna know is that if it ran like ****, why did he advance the cam? It kinda sounds like it had a misfire problem. Maybe it was detonating.

 

It was running like **** because of a terribly rich AFR, the first run on the dyno, the AFR was Below 10:1. Not sure if the rich condition could of caused a spun rod bearing? Also - How would detonation cause a spun rod bearing. It seems detonation would burn a hole through the piston before it spun a bearing. Detonation is possible, what I thought sounded like piston hitting valves could of been detonation, bad detonation... That sounds more possible now that I think of it.. I don't think a cam advance of only +2 would cause the piston to slap a valve..

 

hmm I've seen knock caused my bad detonation. Best thing would be to tear down the motor and see what happened.

 

I'd also suggest during the tear down to clay the head for clearance. See how far the ctr cams can actually be advance... before they are ever adjusted.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by splitime &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd also suggest during the tear down to clay the head for clearance. See how far the ctr cams can actually be advance... before they are ever adjusted.</TD></TR></TABLE>

agreed with splitime....

next time get a different tuner though, also have head checked out might or probably did bent some valves
new cams wouldn't sound bad either bro

 

to be honest with you, none of us will be able to help you(too many things could have gone wrong). you'll need to open the engine up, and see what you find. good luck!

 

ur valves hit. u know therers big possibilities that the piston was hitting the head. take a good good look at the head and pistons when u pull that apart. the valves are bent, and i bet the bearings already have alot of wear ifits been revved to 8k a few times already

 

{LSVTEC91CIVIC} what piston's were you running?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LSVTEC 91 Civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Looks like i'll be replacing the bearings.. has anybody heard good things about ACL bearings? I was using OEM hondas, but I heard some good things about ACL.</TD></TR></TABLE>ACL bearings are great... Im using them on my set up as well!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DEVIOUS_EF* &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">{LSVTEC91CIVIC} what piston's were you running? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Im running CTR pistons, the tops of them have been shaved to lower the compression, I'm probably around 12.1:1 CR, Doesn't seem right that the valves would hit the piston with CTR cams, the tapping noise was only from 2k-3k, then we shut er down. Possible that it was detonation? (sounded like really bad spark knock...) If it was valve to piston contact, wouldn't it make noise throughout the RPM band? I just spent $1000 to have the head rebuilt, with new valvetrain.. I just hope there is no damage to the head...

How woud detonation spin a rod bearing?

 

do like i said look at that head and pistons very carefully

your pistons are likely hitting the head.

a ocal kid thinks he knows a bunch of **** and put ctr in a b18b and it blew up at 9k
the piston was slapping the head so hard that it broke the wristpin out of the piston and put it through the side of the block. all the bearings were trashed from it too.

u need to clay the motor and b sure to accout for rod stretch

 

good luck man, i dunno this motor junk...that's what johnzm would be for if i ever get around to building mine

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johnzm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
u need to clay the motor and b sure to accout for rod stretch</TD></TR></TABLE>

Would be a good idea if I ever had the $ to tear it apart... I just spent $1000 on the head, and i'll be very lucky if all I need is a crank polish and some new bearings. I'll probably find out tomorrow what exactly is wrong. Thanks man.

If the head and pistons are fucked up.. looks like i'll be parting her out.

 

tuners fault no doubt. it detonated from running to rich and hammered out a bearing. i would ream his *** for it. i have been around you car for many years even before you owned it and it ran like a champ. he made a simple adjustment, turned the car on at started knocking. this guy doesnt sound like he knows what he is doing. next time take it to a well know "Honda" tuner. that a/f is horrible and he should not have been making adjustments to your timing unless he has resolved the bad a/f first. You say he turend up your fuel pressure? you have 345cc injectors, he should not have turned up your fuel pressure especially with your a/f like that. he should have turned t doen to stock and leaned out your vafc. may i suggest a hondata with and obd1 conversion next time. Sounds like this guy needs a helemt. manny, i would seriously like to talk to this guy becasue this is really pissing me off. scott and i have way to much time into your car for some tuner to mess it up.




Modified by IntegraLStuner at 1:17 PM 9/6/2004

 

im sorry but 10:1 afr does not cause detonation.


im pretty sure every turbo car in the world would have detonated at one time or another if it did.

 

The tuner is a good guy, Hopefully find out tomorrow exactly what went wrong.. I just want to get my baby back on the road again.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johnzm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im sorry but 10:1 afr does not cause detonation.


im pretty sure every turbo car in the world would have detonated at one time or another if it did.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
like i said before, there's no need to point fingers at anyone. we'll all be able to tell what happened, when the block is pulled and inspected. the above statement is true, i did some dyno runs on 370cc injectors and my a/f was no higher than 10.9:1. all that happened to my engine was a loss of 12whp, and about .3-.5 on the 1/4 mile

 

hey, u were watching him right?

when he advanced the cam gear did he touch your ignition timming at all?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johnzm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey, u were watching him right?

when he advanced the cam gear did he touch your ignition timming at all?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Eh, I don't recall... Like smokey said above, I'm not pointing fingers at anybody. Hopefully I'll find out tomorrow what went wrong.

 

Well, I'm heading down there today.. Wish my luck fellas!

 

For those saying that the pistons smacked valves - would that really create a knock? Seems like you would get ticking before knocking as the valves would have bent before the rods.
Ticking would be the bent valve crashing back into the head.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4drEF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For those saying that the pistons smacked valves - would that really create a knock? Seems like you would get ticking before knocking as the valves would have bent before the rods.
Ticking would be the bent valve crashing back into the head.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I did have a ticking before the engine started to knock. I'm thinking it was detonation because the loud ticking was only from 2k-3.5/4k RPM range.. seems more like a bad spark knock to me because if the piston was infact making contact with a valve, then you would probably hear that troughout the RPM band. Who knows, I'm gonna see if I can figure out whats goin on today.

 

Did you bother with a compression test before tearing it down???
How did the spark plugs look after all the knocking?