I love my DC5,

but one thing I have been thinking about this past week is the suspension. In all the best motorings, the DC5 and EP3 suspension has been questionable and been rated low, one reason could be the macpherson struts instead of the older gen's double wishbone.

Question here:

Has anyone done or heard of switching macpherson to double wishbone on the RSX or any car.

Also any opinions on this topic, I am smoking crack or does it sound like a good project for a big industry garage should try and experiment.

GO FAST!!!

 

I think there might be something there since the TSX has double wishbone, but the sanctions of many popular race organizations that would have teams with money to do this (such as the BTCC) do not allow such modification... or pretty much all the cars would want to do it, regardless of make.

 

Yes you're right about the TSX or Accord type r. Cus I just saw the new best motoring and the Phase Accord R got great reviews with their suspension, that's one reason why i thought maybe the double wishbone is more favorable for FWD cars.

 

That's why most places like Mugen, King, etc. have dropped the DC5R and EP3R and have gone to the TSX and Accord-R. There was a big deal made of it a few months ago when Mugen said that they were dumping the car because the suspension wasn't up to par.

 

i think it could be since mugen/spoon, and wahtever racing company that tunes hondas are already so used to tuning the double wishbone and have gone through so much testing of it, that they just don't want to start all over with the macpherson struts since they don't have as much experience iwth the macphersons than the double wishbone. and instead of dumping tons of money into testing and tuning they just drop the car and pick up a car with double wishbone. but thats just my opinion, I don't think macpherson or double is better than each other

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by T-EN dc5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think it could be since mugen/spoon, and wahtever racing company that tunes hondas are already so used to tuning the double wishbone and have gone through so much testing of it, that they just don't want to start all over with the macpherson struts since they don't have as much experience iwth the macphersons than the double wishbone. and instead of dumping tons of money into testing and tuning they just drop the car and pick up a car with double wishbone. but thats just my opinion, I don't think macpherson or double is better than each other</TD></TR></TABLE>

I hope that you don't actually believe that? Double wishbones are, and always have been, better than Macpherson struts. It's not that cars with struts can't be made to handle well, it's just that they'd handle better with double wishbones. The geometry is very simple when you compare the two.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jimmyjames &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's why most places like Mugen, King, etc. have dropped the DC5R and EP3R and have gone to the TSX and Accord-R. There was a big deal made of it a few months ago when Mugen said that they were dumping the car because the suspension wasn't up to par.</TD></TR></TABLE>you mean the Mugen/King RSX-S that ran just this past weekend?
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=962942

 

MacPherson is a terrible setup for FWD cars. It is used, mainly, because it saves space and takes less time to manufacture vs. the double wishbone systems. But, Double Wishbone is the second best type of suspension (best is multilink [basically double wishbone with more linkages]). MacPherson is the last. Double wishbone has neutral camber and thus handles better.'

Reason why Porsches use it, IMO, is because their engine/car layout different from Hondas. RE/RWD or AWD. while hondas are FE/FW or in the s2000's case, RWD.

 

ISNT LIVE AXLE the worst?

 

yeah it is, but i disregarded that as no CARS today even posses that garbage anymore.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rsxmachine &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you mean the Mugen/King RSX-S that ran just this past weekend?
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=962942</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, the one that's no longer supported. Please search.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kal &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah it is, but i disregarded that as no CARS today even posses that garbage anymore.</TD></TR></TABLE>

SE-R Spec V, VW GTI, Chevy Cavalier...there are a lot of cars that have the beam axle type of crap out back.

I assume this is what the original poster was referring to.

 

I sure hope this does not turn into a Macphersion strut Vs. Doublewish Bone suspension war again. **** never gets resolved and the thread gets locked. And also in that Vtec Club video that best motoring made was a great video. The DC5R and EP3R handed the CL7 its *** pretty bad and in the end they rate the EP3R as the better car and the DC5R coming in second, while the CL7 trailed last. Even when they put the DC5R against the moddified CL7 such as Amuse it still won in the end. I still have no idea why they didnt put the EP3R in that battle, it would have done very well.

 

do not succumb to half-truths and speculations. the macpherson setup is a more economical setup, though the way honda has set up theirs is actually better, to reduce bumpsteer, very similar to BMW. look at the two for proof.

i don't understand why this topic is brought up so much. i don't think anyone here who has posted to this would be ale to tell the difference between the two suspensions if they were mounted in the same car. i also doubt anyone could drive either to their limits.

quite simply, if anyone here was that bothered by this, i doubt they would have bought one of these cars anyways. i agree with the aforementioned point about r&d costs for the mugen and king disapproval of the system.

furthermore, if anyone really wanted a great-handling car, you would ave bought a RWD car with full independent wishbones.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kung fu grip &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> if anyone really wanted a great-handling car, you would ave bought a RWD car with full independent wishbones.</TD></TR></TABLE>

sorry for the deviation...but where could I find a list of these cars to choose from in the future?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hatch2k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

sorry for the deviation...but where could I find a list of these cars to choose from in the future? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Tons of them out there. Mazda does a lot like that.

 

rx8.

 

Lets not forget that most BMW's and Porsche's are macpherson strut, and I think they handle pretty well. It's all about how you tune your suspension.

 

their layout is different also, so you can't really compare them with FWD macpherson hondas.

edited for a grammar error.


Modified by Kal at 9:36 PM 8/25/2004


Modified by Kal at 9:37 PM 8/25/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pints99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Lets not forget that most BMW's and Porsche's are macpherson strut, and I think they handle pretty well. It's all about how you tune your suspension.</TD></TR></TABLE>

RTFT

 

mazda miata

 

I just bought a 2.4 Accord swap(which is for sale BTW) that still had the suspension attached to it; we were thinking of trying to bolt it into a Civic to see what happens

 

IMHO, mac. suspension sucks! If don't have the right tool(too expensive), you risk busting the ball joints on the steering rack and the suspension is not as firm as double wishbone. If its a possibility, I would switch over in a heartbeat.

 

so, it isn't any good because you need a tierod separator/tierod fork? sure, a $10-20 tool is a bank breaker.

stiffness is relative to the spring rate. macpherson suspensions need lighter spring rates compared to wishbone types. keep fishing.

 

if you're using a ball-joint remover(fork) to break loose the ball joint, 99.9% of chances is you will cut the rubber on the ball-joint!