Please share your lessons learned from having a cage built/installed in a 92-95 Hatchcrap.

Visual aids would help me a ton.

After seeing what can happen in the rain at Pacific Raceways this weekend it is time to take the plunge.

PS - I will be having the roof re-skinned at the same time.

Thx!

Nash

 

Nash- I learned to have Russ build the cage. Is that who you plan on taking it too?

Also...what happened @ PR??

 

You've seen my car and have my opinions already.

NOTE TO EVERYONE:
Check your seat brackets and fasteners. After seeing the drivers seat yesterday (although not as closely as others), it deformed pretty badly. It's quite possible the seat brackets did their job to prevent more significant movement, but please, everyone, check your seat hardware.

 

I had my cage installed by Frey Racing. (now online ony I hear)

 

No matter who you have build the cage, make sure it is kept tight to the roof line around the windshield especially.

When I build cages that is where I concentrate the most support, and at the main hoop of course. The A pillars need lots of reinforcement.

I gusset with tubing from each down tube to the halo around the windshield and again from the halo to the main hoop to strengthen the entire structure.

In nasa, there is a 30 lb weight penalty for more than 8 attachment points, I always build nasa cages with this penalty in mind, and weld to the tub at every point I can.

I cut the stock seat mounts out, and weld in 1" dia. tubing to mount the seat too as well. The tubing is much stronger with welds between the rocker and the exhaust tunnel. I attach the seat belt mounts to the cage on the left side, and on the right, I weld in a 90 degree mount to the floor where the old stock seat bolt hole is, thus attaching at the strongest points possible and allowing the belts to be used in a 45 degree angle with the driver in the seat.

I will see what I can do to get you some pics.

This is just how I mount things, I am not saying it is the best, but it passes inspection just fine, and the cars that have wrecked with my cages have all done their job and stopped the roof sheet metal from colapsing and harming the driver.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Roadracejunkie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
In nasa, there is a 30 lb weight penalty for more than 8 attachment points, I always build nasa cages with this penalty in mind, and weld to the tub at every point I can.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Please show me this rule.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Grumpy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Please show me this rule.</TD></TR></TABLE>

refers to a HC rule.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Grumpy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Please show me this rule.</TD></TR></TABLE>

west coast honda challenge website/rules...

section 4.0 Safety/4.9 roll cage...

3rd to last sentence.

if cage passes thru firewall (2 forward braces per side) or tubes welded at any contact point or seam welding +30lb. weight penalty will apply.

i kept this rule in mind when i was having my cage made.
i hope it is enforced on the west coast.

 

Sorry, thought you were speaking of NASA in general.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Primo. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

west coast honda challenge website/rules...

section 4.0 Safety/4.9 roll cage...

3rd to last sentence.

if cage passes thru firewall (2 forward braces per side) or tubes welded at any contact point or seam welding +30lb. weight penalty will apply.

i kept this rule in mind when i was having my cage made.
i hope it is enforced on the west coast. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I was ready to quote that word for word. I kept this rule in mind too and am contemplating it. ITA doesn't allow it at all, but I would do it in NASA for the 30lb weight penalty, for the increase is structure. :sigh: Probably end up not for ITA purposes.

 

Any other do's and/or dont's?

Anything you would do differently if you had to do your cage over?

Please share!

Nash

 

DO's:
Read the rulebook of the organization your racing with
BE AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE

DONT's:
Pay and trust someone else to do it

Rich

 

Rambler-

When I build a cage, i have to ask the owner, scca or nasa, you can't have both.

ok, wait, that is debateable, but lets assume that your going for the best cage possible, meaning the main 3:
1)safety
2)performance
3)cosmetics

In Scca's rule book there is a loop hole as well. I won't quote it word for word, but it goes something like this:
If you take a car that weighs 2200 lbs. (crx for example), the cage specs state it is necessary to use X diameter tubing, I believe it is 1.75 dia.
the loop hole states that if you subtract 200 lbs from the car, (for what I don't remember), that is the curb weight you can use as a basis for choosing your cage tubing diameter. It is a weight with out driver and with out cage if I remember correctly, at any rate, some honda's are borderline for smaller dia. tubing.

I once did a cage in a car that was borderline on the size of the tubing to use. I consulted the local scca techman and told him my plan and had him revue the rule with me to make sure I was interpreting it correctly, and I was.
The cage was built with smaller diameter tubing, and plenty of reinforcement with in the structure, but not to the tub, and the car made weight just fine, and was much faster than similar cars out there due to less mass...the cage was protested for improper diameter, and I took home the protest fee due to my reading of the rule book which stated you can subtract the 120 or so pounds.

Then 2 weeks later, the same driver that protested my driver, showed up with a 1.5 dia. cage like I had done and became competitive, and no, I didn't get to build his cage unfortunately...

Moral- decide the series, read the rule book closely, consult a cage builder, get out the checkbook, enjoy some racing legally and feel good about your new cage.

* I wish I had my GCR in front of me to quote that section about the deduction, but I know someone will read this and post it for me.

Finding that one line in the GCR has gained me alot of respect in my region, I don't just throw a cage in to make money, I have the customers interest at heart.
Feel free to ask any question you need to, especially before you pay to have it built....
Just as a reference, here is how I price my cages:
1) diameter of tubing being used
2) front legs behind dash, or in front
3) extra gussetting and where- (nasa or scca?)
4) custom seat fitting once done- for seat belt placement and helmet clearance.
5) am I doing the window net or are you
6) door bars- single on each side or nascar on drivers with door gutting including.
7) kill switch location?
8) who's removing the sound deading on the floor?
9) weld in or bolt in? If it bolts in, I'm not your cage builder
10) how fast do you need it built? (doesn't influence price, just a nice way to keep customer in the loop, and they are welcome to stop by during the build).

On a typical ita crx or H4 crx behind the dash with all the goods (custome camera mount, paint choice, window net, custom feet for rear section, nascar door bars etc.) I charge 2300.00 for mild steel, completed in 5 days.

I can provide you a long list of satisfied customers, including the Factory Honda Acura TL that just made it's debut at Mid Ohio last weekend. They will testify that I build nice cages and I know what I am talking about. Ryan Flaherty (nasa national chairman and honda challenge director, complimented me on my cages last weekend when did tech at mid ohio.)
G and W Motorsports (multiple grand am Porsche champions in Virginia) hired me to come put a cage in a 911 that raced at this years Daytona 24, that was an honor. It took me 5 days of 15 hours a day =75 hours labor.


The most basic cage I did was 1600.00.
It was a basic 6 point, no door bars, no gusseting, no paint, no window net, no roof bar, no petty bar, just the basics.

A basic cage should take about 60 hours done right, a full on World Challenge spec cage takes me 3 times that long and the price is 6k w/ chromoly tubing.

I hope this helps shed some light on the issues you may be facing. I wish I had more pics to share. I will dig some up if you need them.

*post edited for typ o's and grammar