What's strange is... I drove Vegeta's R last night(100% stock suspension)

then I drove mine again.. and he agreed with me when I said it seems like MY car isn't as "tail happy"..

seems like my car has a hard time turning it's *** end out.

maybe someone can give some insight?
here's my setup..
apexi ws coilovers, set at approx. 1/4" lower than stock R height
15x6.5 regamaster evo w/ 195/50r15 toyo proxes t1s
jdm rear upper strut bar
switched to 22mm LS front bar(i thought i was supposed to get MORE oversteer by doing this?)
switched stock rear under brace for aluminum comptech one
stock 22mm rear bar
front and rear polyurethane swaybar bushings
mugen rear LCA bushings

tire psi is 30-32 all around... help??

i know there's plenty of road racers here to lend some constructive criticism, so have at it!

 

i have the R setup on my gsr and its very "tail happy"

 

Maybe it's cause you got some sticky *** Toyos. All the cars I've driven with Toyo T1's are always well planted.

 

Alignment, particularly if his were more toe-out in the rear (or if you're toed-in by comparison, stock is 2 degrees toe-in rear, 0 front) could be the reason...

 

Okay, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that your tire pressure is pretty low. When I AutoX I generally run 40f/42r. When I'm not racing...or on the roadcourse a little less... about 35+ or so. One more thing, do you have your spare tire in your car?

Other than that I have no suggestions considering I don't know you suspension setup.

 

yup tail happy == more psi in rear than fronts...

just a thought .. Try it...


tj

 

I'd adjust the tire pressure and if you are still having prob's check your alignment. I'm running 205/50 15 Azenis at 35F and 38R. Car has a nice balanced feel to it with trailing throttle oversteer. with the pressures that I'm running I have to be careful to be smooth in quick transitions in order to keep the rear planted. BTW, everything on my car is stock

 

Put your front strut bar back on Mike

 

think that has anything to do with it?

 

Well, since you drove both cars yourself, we'll say that the technique was the same in both instances. I have to agree that your tire pressure seems a little low all around. On the street I run about 36/35 F/R since I don't want the tail to come out at all, but when racing I run the pressures higher in the rear (even with narrower tires in the rear). Try setting your tires around 33/38 F/R just to see if anything changes. If not, move back to a more neutral setting and check all of your bushings that you replaced/upgraded. Anything that will soften up the rear will reduce your oversteer. You're right about the theory of the LS front bar, but I don't have any experience with that in practice. You'll get the same effect by running a larger rear bar. Having raced both with and without the rear strut tower bar, I'm not convinced that it makes much of a difference (but the roll bar may cover up the tower bar's contribution). Same with the Comptech brace...not surprised that this didn't make a huge difference.

Also, what are the spring rates F/R for the Apexi's?

 

Mike:
it's b/c of the World Sport sus. Those things come w/ really soft rear springs. If I remember correctly, it's 6K front & only 3K in the rear.

-y

 

I dunno if it would help with your particular problem. Most JDM coilovers run stiffer rates up front than rear; I think they make their cars tail happy by using wider tires up front and fiddling with the alignment settings.

Yoshi should be able to give you some help; also maybe Ben @ AJR.



[Modified by kengs, 1:00 AM 12/3/2001]

 

are the apexi springs available in different rates? or should i go back w/ stock shocks and springs? ride height is not an issue. i bought the apexi because i thought it would make my car handle better.. nobody had any experience with them at the time of my purchase... so it was a gamble.

or option 3... get some other aftermarket springs for the stock shocks?

 

Installation of Teins on my car definitely killed its tail-out character.
I assumed that it was mainly due to its spring rates where the front is significantly stiffer than the rear.

About a month ago, I took my Teins out for a external rebuild and re-installed the stock shock/spring combo. The tail-out character was back but it wasn't as tail-happy as my buddy's ITR with stock suspension.

After taking another drive in my friend's ITR, I noticed that the RE010's had alot to do with it also.

To better this situation where your car will be more tail-happy,
try getting stiffer rear trailing arm bushings and a thicker(perhaps Mugen) rear sway bar.

 

how does an *** handle?

 

I bet you'd be surprised if you went back to OEM shocks/springs and a larger rear sway bar.

 

not quite sure.. but i'm sure a 1990 navy blue accord would be a spectacular example...

 

In the right hands, quite well

 

Run more camber up front if you can. Increase tire pressures all around (38F, 36R) You can also try lower the front a little more which will increase your camber a bit. Keep toe-in conservative on street tires. Lowering the front will also tend to give the rear a chance to roll a bit better (loading the outside tire more quickly due to higher CG).

When the Toyos wear out get something in 205/50 size. 195/50 is too small IMO as the Type R is under-tired stock.

Lastly I would put the stock bar back on the front. Softening the front bar on a FF car with a heavy nose is the wrong way to get oversteer. You should stiffen the rear instead.

 

Hmmm.... this is tru and false... i have the WS coilovers on my lsR... they are great, but the prob with them is the spring.. The front rate is a 8k and the rear is a 2k... if you convert them to pounds, that is equivalent to 450 and 212

i talked with apexi directly in cali...l they didnt know much bout springs and they recoomend i called there distributors... ie, spi or xs

anywho... i have my car slammed and if i have a passenger in the pass seat, the b pipe will ratlle on my LCA... quite annoying...

my solution to this is going to be stiff springs... if you compaire the WS to any other coilover, you cant beet it for the price, but they DO need stiff springs.

The N1 coilovers come with 9k f , 7 k r... teins are in the 10k f, 8k r range.... skunk coiliovers, 8k f, 6 k rear... if you see the pattern, Apexi used too sofyt rear springs... stiffen them and you are golden

O, btw, 1 on my boys has the WS on a EK hatch... the civic rates are 9k f, and 2 k r... just some food for thought...

 

hahahahahahaha lol that is some funnt chit

 

haha it actually does... dick

 

wow

 

Mike K, ill trade you my stocks, for your world cups, i like the way your car feels, even if it does'nt have enough oversteer

 

I agree with Yoshi.I have the remedy right here.I am selling my Advanced design threaded body coilovers.All aluminum with titanium internals.2.4lbs each. Those with 600lb/f and 800lb/r and you will have all the over steer you need.