Since it doesn't happen when I'm ever handy to do a diagnostics, this problem has been bugging me. Randomly, my car will not start. When I say not start, it will crank and crank but not start. I'll let it sit for a few seconds and sometimes it'll start othertimes it will take 2-3 times of trying until it starts. Once it starts, it runs great.

Now I'm used to using the ECU codes to figure it out but I can't ever get to see the code because I'm like at a store or something whenever it seems to happen. I need to leave my ECU out for a while.

Anyway, I'm thinking it has to be one of the following: Fuel pump, injectors, spark plugs, or distributor.

What sucks is that it's obviously something that's starting to break and only fails once in a while. can anyone offer suggestions as to how to narrow it down?

Thanks.

 

ck the main relay first,and the ignition switch

 

do a tune-up man. it always turns out to be something very simple that causes the worse headaches.

 

Ok, so now the car won't ever start. almost starts as in it'll start stumbling but dies. I can finally check error codes being that I was stuck in a gas station parking lot and NO ERRORS.

So if the ECU is telling me the truth, it has to be something simple? Fuel pump would throw an error if it wasn't turning on correct?

I'm thinking try changing distributor rotor, cap, fuel filter and spark plugs and see if it helps? What do you think?

Anything else I should look into?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2000Accord5sp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... I need to leave my ECU out for a while.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Why?? Your name says 2000Accord, so is that the car you're talking about? Or maybe the '94 or '92 from all that stuff in your signature??

I'm not sure about '92, but for '94 or 2000 your ECU stores the fault codes. You don't have to read em that exact moment.

 

it's a '91. sorry for the confusion. and when I said 'leave it out', i meant out from under the carpetting and all since until now, it'd just happen once or twice that I crank and it wont' start...then i try again and it starts.

So being that it still throws no errors, there is no electronic issues? (or so it thinks?). What should I start from?

 

OK, yeah. I guess on a '91 you gotta watch the LED by opening up the carpeting or something. I don't know whether that ECU can store codes.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2000Accord5sp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, so now the car won't ever start. almost starts as in it'll start stumbling but dies. I can finally check error codes being that I was stuck in a gas station parking lot and NO ERRORS.</TD></TR></TABLE>OK now... if your main relay or ignition switch were flaky, the ECU would think that you simply switched off the engine. Won't throw a code for that.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2000Accord5sp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So if the ECU is telling me the truth, it has to be something simple? Fuel pump would throw an error if it wasn't turning on correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>No. There's no error code for a non-running fuel pump.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2000Accord5sp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm thinking try changing distributor rotor, cap, fuel filter and spark plugs and see if it helps? What do you think?</TD></TR></TABLE>Probably not. Those should make it run bad or misfire. You said once it actually starts, it runs good.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2000Accord5sp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anything else I should look into?</TD></TR></TABLE>Check continuity across the 3 circuits of your ignition switch. Wiggle the switch while you're doing this.

Then check your main relay by watching continuity across the 2ndary contacts while you energize the coils.

 

Sorry for the dumb question but where is the ignition switch? Are you talking about right where the key goes and check those wires or somewhere else along the circuitry?

also could you explain this in more detail please?
"Then check your main relay by watching continuity across the 2ndary contacts while you energize the coils."

The main relay is in the fuse box right? So what is the secondary contacts??? And when you say 'energize' the coils, you're talking about turning the ignition to the 'on' position right?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2000Accord5sp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So being that it still throws no errors, there is no electronic issues? (or so it thinks?). What should I start from?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I would check the main relay first. I pull them out of the case and look for cracked solder joints.

 

The electrical part of the ignition switch is attached to the inside end of the lock cylinder where the key goes. So I guess you have to take off the covers for the steering column. Should be 4 wires, I don't know how they're labeled/colored. Mine hasn't screwed up yet, so I don't know what kinds of guards or shrouds they install around there.

Nothing's connected when the key is off.
Common-to-accessory circuit has continuity when key is at "ACC" & "ON"
Common-to-ignition circuit has continuity when key is at "ON" & "START"
Common-to-start circuit has continuity only when key is at "START"

Sometimes the common-to-ignition circuit gets flaky when you wiggle the key. That's kinda common for Hondas.

For the main relay, I guess I'd want to look at a circuit drawing for the details. Any relay works kinda like this. There's 2 terminals (I'll call them primary?) which energize the relay when they get battery voltage. When it's energized, it closes a switch between 2 other terminals (I called them secondary).

A Honda "main relay" is really 2 or 3 relays together in the same case. So you need a roadmap to know which terminal is which. A Helm repair book has a real nice writeup for testing it. Then you'll need a DMM & some supplies to make up a couple jumper wires.

 

put in a main relay and start the car

 

sounds like a main relay problem. i had the same thing happen to me 3 months ago . i read on here somewhere that when your car fails to start tap on the main relay. if your car starts then its your main relay.....or just coincidence.

 

I've been struggling with the same problem!!!

I took it to a mechanic who replaced the ignition coil and distributor ignitor. Over $500 later, these replaced parts had no effect. I am very hesitant to use the car with a two year old son in tow, but I think I solved the variable start mystery by trying to start it at various times a day. It seems to be outside temperature related! So it it's sitting out in the hot driveway, no way it will start. If I wait until it cools off in the evening, I can start it again.

 

check the connections on your alternator (under the little black boot). If these are rusted and not getting a good connection, it will prevent the car from starting. Just a guess but it never hurts to check.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 91AccordEXwagon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've been struggling with the same problem!!!

I took it to a mechanic who replaced the ignition coil and distributor ignitor. Over $500 later, these replaced parts had no effect. I am very hesitant to use the car with a two year old son in tow, but I think I solved the variable start mystery by trying to start it at various times a day. It seems to be outside temperature related! So it it's sitting out in the hot driveway, no way it will start. If I wait until it cools off in the evening, I can start it again.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

that is the EXACT same thing that happened to me in my 94. if the inside of my car was too hot it would not start. tell you macanic to replace the main relay. should be no more that 60 dollars w/o labor. i was out 800 for the first visit. the two after that were free because they didnt fix the problem.

edit: i am assuming your car will crank

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RnEpmc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

that is the EXACT same thing that happened to me in my 94. if the inside of my car was too hot it would not start. tell you macanic to replace the main relay. should be no more that 60 dollars w/o labor. i was out 800 for the first visit. the two after that were free because they didnt fix the problem.

edit: i am assuming your car will crank</TD></TR></TABLE>

guys you're not the only ones. I have a 99 accord and know a friend of mine who had a 92 accord. my friend had to replace the ignition switch. My problem with the 99 accord i thought was temperature related for during the past few months, during hot temperatures, mind you, the car would completely shut off during travel and wouldnt start unless i waited about five minutes, (under a shade would be better). Luckily for me, Honda has recalled the ignition switch for my vin and i am going to get it replaced tomorrow. It is most probably your ignition switch or relay as some others have said. i think this ignition switch problem has really been going for sometime. My friend, his accord was almost at 300,000 miles when he got that ignition switch changed. SAMe problem as you described i had and he had.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RnEpmc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that is the EXACT same thing that happened to me in my 94. if the inside of my car was too hot it would not start. tell you macanic to replace the main relay. should be no more that 60 dollars w/o labor. i was out 800 for the first visit. the two after that were free because they didnt fix the problem.

edit: i am assuming your car will crank</TD></TR></TABLE>


Yes, the car will crank.

Having reviewed ALL the responses, replacing the main relay is clearly the next step.

Please comment... shouldn't the most expensive shop in my area been able to do this kind of research in their industry databases and come up with the same answer? I mean, how many more things were they going to replace before they figured it out.

BTW, My '91 Honda has under 80,000 miles on it! It's due for a tune-up and, I am told, a timing-chain at 90,000 (which this shop bid at $1250). I know it's entering auto middle-age. What else should I expect will need replacing, say in the next 20,000 miles? Any feedback is appreciated...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 91AccordEXwagon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Having reviewed ALL the responses, replacing the main relay is clearly the next step.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
If it was me, I would make sure it is bad first.

 

Next time it happens, find a bar and knocks the starter a couple times...

 

Could just be the starter going bad.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by superxxxhot &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Next time it happens, find a bar and knocks the starter a couple times...</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is an old school trick that unsiezes a frozen starter motor. i forgot about that one!

 

can someone be a pal and tell me where the main relay is. i have been having the same problem all summer. i just checked with the honda dealer and they told me 69 bucks for the relay. any help is greatly appreciated.

 

near the interior fuse box

 

Well since it doesn't start now, you can easily check the main relay itself. Just turn the key to the ON position and listen for the fuel pump to prime, no noise = new main relay..

I see it all the time at work..

 

I got my problem fixed and it was really the sadest thing. I thought it was the relay because fuel pump wasn't turning on and the relay wouldn't 'click' when turning the ignition on. But even a new relay didn't help. It was the actual socket in the fuse box the relay plugs into. One of the sockets for the relay got pushed down under the fuse box so it wasn't making a good connection. That's why for a while, it usually worked but sometimes would be barely touching to where you couldn't get enough voltage for the fuel pump to turn on. Anyway, glad it was a sipmle fix and car's runing better than before!