Im sort of debating whether to pick up a set of S2S1's and CTR's. Is there a noticable gain in the s2s1's over the CTR's. Im currently running USDM Type R cams in my c5. Will there be a noticable difference after tuning with the CTR's. Thanx

I can pick up the CTR's at a decent price.

 

Get the SK2 Stage 1! With a little tunning and some right parts it's possible you can hit 200whp. Plus they pull way harder on top end than CTR's. I know... I used to own them. SK2's stage 1 are in some cases more aggressive than other stage 2 cams for other companies.

 

Definatly the Skunk2 cams. With tuning they're a much better cam over the CTR's.

 

Skunk2...no doubt...

 

you already have type R cams, so the CTRs are not a upgrade. I think you are going to regret getting Skunk2 Stage 1 cams if you already have Type R cams. there is minimal power to be gained.

Stage 1's are a good upgrade for gsr and b16 cams. not worth the money in my opinion over Type R cams.

save up and go Stage 2 with the recommend valve-train

this is just my opinion, I have never used Skunk2 cams.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shant &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you already have type R cams, so the CTRs are not a upgrade. I think you are going to regret getting Skunk2 Stage 1 cams if you already have Type R cams. there is minimal power to be gained.

Stage 1's are a good upgrade for gsr and b16 cams. not worth the money in my opinion over Type R cams.

save up and go Stage 2 with the recommend valve-train

this is just my opinion, I have never used Skunk2 cams. </TD></TR></TABLE>

if you have never used Skunk2 cams then how can you say their not worth it?

i personally have never used any of the two but i do know that itr and ctr cams are the same cams at lease in the later years (someone correct me if im wrong), so getting ctr cams wouldnt be an upgrade. i plan on using stage 1's for a mild street setup later. good luck on your choice

 

If you've ever comparatively driven a car with CTR and Skunk2 Stage 1 cams, then you wouldn't be writing that. It's not even a debate if you've experienced both.

I've had both and the Skunk2 Stage 1's are better hands down; especially since you can pick up a used set for just a little more than CTR or ITR cams.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IN VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you've ever comparatively driven a car with CTR and Skunk2 Stage 1 cams, then you wouldn't be writing that. It's not even a debate if you've experienced both.

I've had both and the Skunk2 Stage 1's are better hands down; especially since you can pick up a used set for just a little more than CTR or ITR cams.</TD></TR></TABLE>

this could go on for days, but is all relative. and i do know for a FACT that it is a waste to buy s2s1's over ctr's. my boy sold his ctr's for a set of s2s1's. after tuning of both cams(hondata and cam gears), the s2s1's made 3whp peak and 0wtq more. actually, the ctr made a good 3wtq more than the s2s1's for a 1500rpm spread. there are very few stage1 cams that outperform the ctr's. its a fact, that's why most people go str8 to stage 2 cams, may they be s2, crower, jun, toda or whatever.

 

go with stage 2's just save a little longer!!! i know i had some!!

 

I won't disagree that the stage 1's do not make an exceptional amount of power or that it isn't a better value to simply get a set of stage 2 cams from the start, but saying that they're completely worthless is going a bit too far.

If you want to compare numbers, I trapped 4 to 5mph higher and dropped 2 to 3 tenths off my quarter mile stats with those cams.

 

ctr cams and skunk stage 1 cams both have some lobe size but the skunk stage 1 has a lil more duration. A guy I know had ctr cams in his car and switched over to skunk and he said he could barely tell the difference. He said he regret paying that money for such little difference and he should have gotten skunk stage 2 at least

 

im interested in your Stock ITR cams if you get some CTR or sk2.
let me know if you decide to sell them, if you do decide to sell what year is your motor???

 

OK... here are some comparisons to help you make the decision for yourself:


Crower 63400 10.72 mm 234 @ 1mm 9.60 mm 234 @ 1mm

Crower 63401 11.38 mm 249 @ 1mm 10.54 mm 240 @ 1mm

Crower 63401T 11.81 mm 230 @ 1mm 11.30 mm 226 @ 1mm

Crower 63402 11.84 mm 258 @ 1mm 11.84 mm 251 @ 1mm

Crower 63402A 11.84 mm 267 @ 1mm 11.84 mm 239 @ 1mm

Crower 63403 12.04 mm 267 @ 1mm 11.84 mm 257 @ 1mm

Crower 63411T 11.81 mm 230 @1mm 11.30 mm 226 @1mm

Crower 63412 11.83 mm 248@ 1mm 11.81 mm 240@ 1mm

Crower 63413 11.98 mm 257 @ 1mm 11.84 mm 246 @ 1mm

JDM Civic Type R 11.5mm 243 @ 1mm 10.5 mm 235 @ 1mm

JDM Integra Type R 11.5 mm 240 @ 1mm 10.5 mm 235 @ 1mm

Jun Type 1 10.9 mm 265.3 @ 1mm 10.0 mm 268 @ 1mm

Jun Type 2 12.0 mm 266.6 @ 1mm 10.0 mm 268 @ 1mm

Jun Type 3 12.0 mm 265.3 @ 1mm 11.5 mm 265.3 @ 1mm

Skunk2 Stage 1 11.58 mm 252 @ 1mm 10.9 mm 249 @ 1mm

Skunk2 Stage 2 12.3 mm 266 @ 1mm 11.8 mm 262 @ 1mm

Skunk2 Stage 3 12.8 mm 273 @ 1mm 11.5 mm 273 @ 1mm

Spoon Sports 11.53 mm 256 @ 1mm 11.13 mm 245 @ 1mm

Toda Spec A 11.6 mm 250 @ 1mm 11.2mm 240 @ 1mm

Toda Spec B 12 mm 255 @ 1mm 12.5 mm 255 @ 1mm

Toda Spec C 12.5 mm 255 @ 1mm 12.5 mm 255 @ 1mm


To the people who keep saying CTR's are the same as SKII stage 1, THEY ARE NOT! Look at the specs yourself, so stop it...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EKCivicR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
To the people who keep saying CTR's are the same as SKII stage 1, THEY ARE NOT! Look at the specs yourself, so stop it...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

we aren't saying that they are the same, well, i'm not. we are just saying that they yield pretty much the same results as a set of tuned CTR's. cams have different ramp speeds and other technical spec's that i have little knowledge of that determine power production, so posting those specs is misleading. to say that the s2s1's and CTR'sare the same is wrong. to say that it is a waste of money to buy s2s1's over a set of TUNED CTR's is the truth.

 

I dont' get why some of you are saying that TUNED ctr's are better, when you have to tune your car with any kind of cam upgrade. On a stock bottom end the skunk stage 1's will make more power. period. It doesn't take much to make 190-200 whp with the skunks.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B16C1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">to say that the s2s1's and CTR'sare the same is wrong.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Correct!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B16C1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">to say that it is a waste of money to buy s2s1's over a set of TUNED CTR's is the truth.</TD></TR></TABLE>

First I assume you are comparing "TUNED" cams on boths side.
Second on what basis do you make this agrument. Bring the "truth" to the table so me can all see it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BryanPendleton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
First I assume you are comparing "TUNED" cams on boths side.
Second on what basis do you make this agrument. Bring the "truth" to the table so me can all see it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you bring the truth and prove me wrong. i don't have any dyno's right now, but, i'll search. i've seen it time and time again. the reason why s2s1's seem to make good power is few reasons. 80% of people don't tune there ****. plain and simple. and, when they tune, they do so only AFTER purchasing a set of aftermarket cams. what i'm trying to say is most dyno plot's are a set of tuned aftermarket cams vs. a set of untuned CTR's or stock cams. you can believe what you want. i know what works and what doesn't. i'm just trying to save dude some money. i am in no way saying s2 is ****, i'm just saying its not worth the extra 3-4 peak whp.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alskd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont' get why some of you are saying that TUNED ctr's are better, when you have to tune your car with any kind of cam upgrade. On a stock bottom end the skunk stage 1's will make more power. period. It doesn't take much to make 190-200 whp with the skunks. </TD></TR></TABLE>

alot of people don't tune there car after installing ITR or CTR cams, trust me. what, do you think that the entire import world is based right here on HT? . anyway, if you read what i said, i never, once, stated that CTR's make more power, so what is your point? anyway, if you don't believe it, who gives a ****. i have a good amount of experience and most stage 1 cams, CTR & ITR included stay within 3-5 PEAK whp of each other. you'd be suprised how close some of these cams perform, especially in the midrange (which is where we spend 95% of our driving) lastly, you say it doesn't take much to make 190-200whp with the skunks, well, with what motor? your statement is too vague, because i feel the same way about CTR's. anyway this topic is getting tired.

 

I made 4-8 whp across the board over ctr's with s2s1 both very well tuned

 

Both cams are an excellent upgrade.. to stock b16a/b18c head but the Skunk2 Stage 1 will still always make more HP than the CTR. So what if it's only by a few horses, every gain counts and can be the difference between winning and losing.

Lets not forget that Skunk2 cams are also made for higher reving, in many ways where they will still make power in higher rpms while power would have dipped already on the CTR's. And I am not just talking about peak HP, even overall powerband is still better on the sk2.

So your question is: Will the Skunk 2 Stage 1 cams make more power than the CTR cams?

I think more people will agree that "YES" it does in a way, and being an owner myself I have to say so too.

Just because someone owned a set of SK2 Stage 1 cams and said it didn't do crap for them as an upgrade doesn't make it bad. It probably just wasn't the right setup for their car.

Right now I am looking at a Skunk 2 Stage 2 intake cam with the stage 1 exhaust cam setup. Don't know how it'll work but it should be interesting...

H'bout choosing a SK2 stage 1 intake cam with a CTR exhaust cam for price budget?

 

skunk 2's website has a graph of the skunk 1's vs the itr cams. they show 13hp advantage with the S2S1's. im not making any claims im just pointing out the graph on their site.

 

MY BUDDY PUT A SET OF STAGE 2 CAMS IN HIS B16A AND ALL I CAN SAY THAT THEY GARBAGE.CTR CAM WILL OUTPERFORM THEM TIME AFTER TIME AND FOR THE PRICE YOU JUST CAINT BEAT THEM.EVEN THE USDM ITR CAMS ARE THE SHHHH. I PUT A SET IN MY B16A AND CLICK OFF A 14.2 IN THE 1/4 THATS WITH SINGLE SPRINGS.AND A 9.0 IN THE 1/8.STOCK WAS 14.7 1/4 AND 9.5 1/8.ALL ON USDM ITR CAM NOW I KNOW THAT THE CTR IS A MORE HOTTER CAM THAN THE ITR SO U WILL NEED DUAL SPRINGS.AND HONDA PARTS ARE MEANT TO GO THE LONG HAUL...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B16C1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

you bring the truth and prove me wrong.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Me!? Your funny. If I recall, you were the one that made a bold claim that you cannot substatiate other than your experience. Keep in mind I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you, I simply want to see facts and evidence to support your claim.

Let's recall your claim for a moment:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B16C1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
to say that it is a waste of money to buy s2s1's over a set of TUNED CTR's is the truth.</TD></TR></TABLE>
First this is a very subjective statement, in that whats wasteful for one person is worth it for the next. But lets puts some number behind this

I like to shop at inlinefour.com
New Skunk2 S1's can be had for ~$715.
New CTR's for ~$700.

Now I know NEW CTR's can be found cheaper on ebay. I believe I have seen them new for around $450 on ebay, couldn't find any now though.

I purchased NEW S2S1's for $620 shipped from ebay.

So we are looking at a different of $150-$200.
You claim 3-4 more HP (unsubstatiated)
Skunk2 claims 13 more (I never trust mfr's though)
trever claims 4-8 more (unsubstatiated)
B16C1 claims 3 peak more (unsubstatiated)

Most will agree that the S2S1's are slightly more aggressive than the CTR.

So the you are claiming that $150-$200 is a waste for 3-4whp. Thats pretty cheap power IMO and would certainly be worth it to me, maybe not you though. People drop $100-$200 on intakes that yield that much.

So the real truth is S2S1's cost $150-$200 more than CTR's and in theory the more aggressive S2S1 should yield more average power, all else being equal. You have power gain claims ranging from 3-13whp. So you have to ask yourself is it worth it or not.

 

There need to be dyno sheets to really see which one is better. Comparing peak horsepower numbers isn't the best way to decide if Skunk2-1's are worth changing to from CTR's. Even though the Skunk2's might only net ~4 more HP, what kind of powerband do they provide?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alfaaay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There need to be dyno sheets to really see which one is better. Comparing peak horsepower numbers isn't the best way to decide if Skunk2-1's are worth changing to from CTR's. Even though the Skunk2's might only net ~4 more HP, what kind of powerband do they provide?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Most are reporting the small gains over the powerband, not simply the peak.

 

You people should know that when you speak of small gains, that could mean alot. 3-6 hp across the powerband might not seem like much.. but it does add up in an natural aspirated motor, the efficiency and all.

Find tuned that motor... with the right parts and the SK2 Stage 1 will still make more HP than the CTR. One who is expecting gains of 20+HP in an na motor should be looking at more aggressive cam setups.

I know numerous people who traded in their ITR or CTR cams for SK2 stage 2 only to run a crappier 1/4 time. That doesn't mean it's bad, it just mean they don't have the correct setup. But then again I have also seen the opposite.

But you should note these cams aren't made to go in a straight line... being that they are also higher reving, simply to maximize the power on road course racing.

The bottom line is do the SKII stage 1 cams make more HP than CTR's?