How often should you really race...and at what cost...and for what reward...and, well,...WHY?
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From: Snowwhitepillowformybigfathead
How often should you really race...and at what cost...and for what reward...and, well,...WHY?
Let's play a game!
Show and tell.
WHY DO YOU RACE?
Look deep into your soul, and explain why you want to race so much that you actually do it.
Then reflect on how you go about your racing and describe what that might say about why you race that you didn't say above.
I keep reading about seat time, seat time, seat time. "Don't spend any money on your car, just drive it more." What? Till you're perfect? I don't think that's ever gonna happen!
What is it that gets you behind the wheel? Are you pursuing perfection behind the wheel?
Once there, behind the wheel, what happens to you? How do you feel on track? What are you thinking? If someone's experience and outlook is different than yours what do you think of that?
How much of the rest of your life should you sacrifice to race? And don't nitpick the word sacrifice - it's used in the sense that to do X you don't do Y. You can't usually do it all. It's about choices.
Would you forgo starting a family to pursue your racing hobby? Would you forgo buying a home? Remodeling a home? Properly maintaining a home? Investing for the future? Even having a wife or girlfriend?
I've got a friend/clubmate who races about 4 times a year - just enough to go to Mid-Ohio. And he usually brings back another National Championship. Do you think he races enough? He can't be driving at his full potential can he? He simply doesn't drive enough. But he must be driving very very well since he has significant manufacturer assistance and wins against very tough competition.
Hmmmm....so hard to pigeon hole him.
Remind me - why do we have to pigeon hole anyone?
There's a big race coming up for Honda Challenge types. Why are some of you taking two or three weeks and spending nearly $10,000 to go to this race? That's crazy behavior - there's got to be a pretty big payoff to justify it....right? What is it?
I've got another friend who goes to Mid-Ohio for the Runoffs each year. He's had problems every time that have prevented him from being satisfied with his results. One reason cited for going again and again is a tire deal that's contingent on his going. It's not his only reason of course, but racing to maintain your sponsorships, or to keep your license current seems like a bit of confusion as to which is the cart and which the horse.
Maybe you can't adequately express why you do this. Maybe it's just like being a little kid and seeing a bunch of other kids playing - and it makes you want to too! I guess I can't think of a better reason than that.
Maybe it's something kinda primal - you want to make your mark. It's your attempt to propel yourself into immortality of a sort. I think this angle might be very prevalent amongst us.
So tell us why you race.
Scott, who currently needs (ok, wants) to race "more"...but can look back on years in which he drove between 30 and 40 hours on track...there is such a thing as enough, and it's not a constant.
Show and tell.
WHY DO YOU RACE?
Look deep into your soul, and explain why you want to race so much that you actually do it.
Then reflect on how you go about your racing and describe what that might say about why you race that you didn't say above.
I keep reading about seat time, seat time, seat time. "Don't spend any money on your car, just drive it more." What? Till you're perfect? I don't think that's ever gonna happen!
What is it that gets you behind the wheel? Are you pursuing perfection behind the wheel?
Once there, behind the wheel, what happens to you? How do you feel on track? What are you thinking? If someone's experience and outlook is different than yours what do you think of that?
How much of the rest of your life should you sacrifice to race? And don't nitpick the word sacrifice - it's used in the sense that to do X you don't do Y. You can't usually do it all. It's about choices.
Would you forgo starting a family to pursue your racing hobby? Would you forgo buying a home? Remodeling a home? Properly maintaining a home? Investing for the future? Even having a wife or girlfriend?
I've got a friend/clubmate who races about 4 times a year - just enough to go to Mid-Ohio. And he usually brings back another National Championship. Do you think he races enough? He can't be driving at his full potential can he? He simply doesn't drive enough. But he must be driving very very well since he has significant manufacturer assistance and wins against very tough competition.
Hmmmm....so hard to pigeon hole him.
Remind me - why do we have to pigeon hole anyone?
There's a big race coming up for Honda Challenge types. Why are some of you taking two or three weeks and spending nearly $10,000 to go to this race? That's crazy behavior - there's got to be a pretty big payoff to justify it....right? What is it?
I've got another friend who goes to Mid-Ohio for the Runoffs each year. He's had problems every time that have prevented him from being satisfied with his results. One reason cited for going again and again is a tire deal that's contingent on his going. It's not his only reason of course, but racing to maintain your sponsorships, or to keep your license current seems like a bit of confusion as to which is the cart and which the horse.
Maybe you can't adequately express why you do this. Maybe it's just like being a little kid and seeing a bunch of other kids playing - and it makes you want to too! I guess I can't think of a better reason than that.
Maybe it's something kinda primal - you want to make your mark. It's your attempt to propel yourself into immortality of a sort. I think this angle might be very prevalent amongst us.
So tell us why you race.
Scott, who currently needs (ok, wants) to race "more"...but can look back on years in which he drove between 30 and 40 hours on track...there is such a thing as enough, and it's not a constant.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 635
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From: Fairfax, Va, Fairfax
Re: How often should you really race...and at what cost...and for what reward...and, well,...WHY? (R
I can give you two replies:
1) Since I am married and monogomous it's better than sex !!!!!!!!!
2) The following below has circulated on the net. for the past few years. I am quite an accomplished writer but I don't think I could ever come up with something original that would beat this:
What Racing is All About
It's about money, of course; for most it's about finding it, finding enough of it, and then finding more. It's about guzzling money like water, about living with the guilt of burning up so much hard earned cash. But it's much more.
It's about supremacy, being top dog, king of the hill, head honcho, the big kahuna; standing out above the crowd, being number one, the best.
It's about speed. It's about riding the fastest, scariest, hold-onto-your-hats-geez-I'm-gonna-wet-my-pants-best-damn-roller-coaster ever invented.
And it's about power. It's about leading the charge of a thousand screaming banshees, having your body wrenched and twisted and tossed about by the hands of great unseen forces; and it's about taming a blind raging Herculean monster, and bending it to your will.
It's about brilliant colors, flashes of light, ear-splitting shrieks, and bone-rattling rumbles. It's about the unforgettable smell of burning rubber, smoldering brake pads, and gear oil. It's about reaching through the steering wheel all the way down to the tires and feeling the road slipping past your fingertips. It's about sensing the weight of the car shifting from tire to tire, like water in a pan. It's about the tug of the shoulder harness across the collar bones, and the cramp in the leg from
pressing the gas pedal through the floor.
Racing is about all of these things, and much more.
It's about passion; burning desire, insatiable hunger. It's a perverse yet overwhelming love affair with steel, glass, and rubber. It's about a relentless courtship with speed.
It's about conceiving and nurturing a child--the benefactor of your skill and wisdom, and a victim of your ignorance. It's about saving a rusting pile of disregarded scrap from the crusher and making it stronger, faster, more real and alive than it ever was, or ever deserved to be. It's about
caring for your creation, loving it; pushing it to its limits, exalting in its greatness, and forgiving its weaknesses, because they are your weaknesses.
It's about dreams and hopes and fears. Dreams of glory; dreams of carving out a small niche in history, like Mario, and Sterling, and "King Richard". Hopes. Hopes that the many long winter hours of lonely toil in the cold, dusty garage will bring smiles come May, and a nod of approval from the brutally indifferent stopwatch. Hopes that the brakes will be there on call, as you hurtle without recourse into the unforgiving concrete canyon. Hopes that, in the end, you'll be able to look back on the whole experience and find it worth the price, while living with the fear that it won't be.
It's about determination, perseverance, and the strength of resolve. It's about patience and discipline. It's about putting in the time, double checking, attending to the critical details. It's about concentration, and focus. It's about controlling the overpowering urges, sticking to the game
plan, and keeping your head when the unthinkable happens. It's about testing, and measuring, and worrying, and sweating the small stuff
It's about faith; faith in yourself, in your crew, in your fellow competitors, in the workers, and in the men and women who designed this car, these tires, and this track. It's about believing in your roll cage, and your safety harness, your Nomex suit, and the fire system that has never been put to the test. It's about knowing that no matter what happens, you chose.
It's about deep and lasting respect, caring, and friendships; about sharing joys and disappointments, pitching in, and easing the load.
It's about living life in the cutting edge of a razor, hanging it all out there, going for broke. It's about knowing, without doubt, by-damn, that you're alive. It's about putting your heart and soul into something and letting the whole world see what you can do. It's about knowing that in the
midst of the confusion and emotion and heart-stopping action, you were the one that mattered.
-Anonymous
Regards,
Jon P. Kofod
#40 Integra LS H4
1) Since I am married and monogomous it's better than sex !!!!!!!!!
2) The following below has circulated on the net. for the past few years. I am quite an accomplished writer but I don't think I could ever come up with something original that would beat this:
What Racing is All About
It's about money, of course; for most it's about finding it, finding enough of it, and then finding more. It's about guzzling money like water, about living with the guilt of burning up so much hard earned cash. But it's much more.
It's about supremacy, being top dog, king of the hill, head honcho, the big kahuna; standing out above the crowd, being number one, the best.
It's about speed. It's about riding the fastest, scariest, hold-onto-your-hats-geez-I'm-gonna-wet-my-pants-best-damn-roller-coaster ever invented.
And it's about power. It's about leading the charge of a thousand screaming banshees, having your body wrenched and twisted and tossed about by the hands of great unseen forces; and it's about taming a blind raging Herculean monster, and bending it to your will.
It's about brilliant colors, flashes of light, ear-splitting shrieks, and bone-rattling rumbles. It's about the unforgettable smell of burning rubber, smoldering brake pads, and gear oil. It's about reaching through the steering wheel all the way down to the tires and feeling the road slipping past your fingertips. It's about sensing the weight of the car shifting from tire to tire, like water in a pan. It's about the tug of the shoulder harness across the collar bones, and the cramp in the leg from
pressing the gas pedal through the floor.
Racing is about all of these things, and much more.
It's about passion; burning desire, insatiable hunger. It's a perverse yet overwhelming love affair with steel, glass, and rubber. It's about a relentless courtship with speed.
It's about conceiving and nurturing a child--the benefactor of your skill and wisdom, and a victim of your ignorance. It's about saving a rusting pile of disregarded scrap from the crusher and making it stronger, faster, more real and alive than it ever was, or ever deserved to be. It's about
caring for your creation, loving it; pushing it to its limits, exalting in its greatness, and forgiving its weaknesses, because they are your weaknesses.
It's about dreams and hopes and fears. Dreams of glory; dreams of carving out a small niche in history, like Mario, and Sterling, and "King Richard". Hopes. Hopes that the many long winter hours of lonely toil in the cold, dusty garage will bring smiles come May, and a nod of approval from the brutally indifferent stopwatch. Hopes that the brakes will be there on call, as you hurtle without recourse into the unforgiving concrete canyon. Hopes that, in the end, you'll be able to look back on the whole experience and find it worth the price, while living with the fear that it won't be.
It's about determination, perseverance, and the strength of resolve. It's about patience and discipline. It's about putting in the time, double checking, attending to the critical details. It's about concentration, and focus. It's about controlling the overpowering urges, sticking to the game
plan, and keeping your head when the unthinkable happens. It's about testing, and measuring, and worrying, and sweating the small stuff
It's about faith; faith in yourself, in your crew, in your fellow competitors, in the workers, and in the men and women who designed this car, these tires, and this track. It's about believing in your roll cage, and your safety harness, your Nomex suit, and the fire system that has never been put to the test. It's about knowing that no matter what happens, you chose.
It's about deep and lasting respect, caring, and friendships; about sharing joys and disappointments, pitching in, and easing the load.
It's about living life in the cutting edge of a razor, hanging it all out there, going for broke. It's about knowing, without doubt, by-damn, that you're alive. It's about putting your heart and soul into something and letting the whole world see what you can do. It's about knowing that in the
midst of the confusion and emotion and heart-stopping action, you were the one that mattered.
-Anonymous
Regards,
Jon P. Kofod
#40 Integra LS H4
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,968
Likes: 1
From: Austin, Tx, USA
Re: How often should you really race...and at what cost...and for what reward...and, well,...WHY? (R
an unhealthy obsession with cars & motorsports is not something that you can sit down, think about objectively, and say to your self: "Self, I think I should be interested in something else."
The outlet for that passion is the only thing you have the slightest control over. Drag racing? Auto-X? Road racing? Soapbox derby?
You pose your question with the incorrect pretext that most here have any self-control or objective rationale when it comes to deciding 'if its worth it'
The outlet for that passion is the only thing you have the slightest control over. Drag racing? Auto-X? Road racing? Soapbox derby?
You pose your question with the incorrect pretext that most here have any self-control or objective rationale when it comes to deciding 'if its worth it'
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,657
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix, AZ
Re: How often should you really race...and at what cost...and for what reward...and, well,...WHY? (R
That's a damn good question, so I'm game to answer...
I don't race....yet....I'm currently doing HPDE's, I've had my CRX for 3 years, it's been swapped since feb. I've done 4 events this year so far, I take full advantage of seat time, I'm not afraid to have an instructor ride with me, even though I've progressed to HPDE 3.
As long as I can remember i've loved cars, in fact, I think it was my first word. All my relatives remember me as a kid always doing something, taking things apart, putting them back together(sometimes they worked, sometimes they didn't). I went to school for cars, not to work on them, but to get into the industry, and I must say, it's been a great year so far.
I grew up in Mansfield, Ohio, so I've been to Mid-Ohio many, many times, my dad used to do all their flyers and print work. I remember seeing Indy races there, IMSA, and I'm sure I saw a SCCA race or two before I even thought about racing myself...although being a car nut from the get go, it was always something in the back of my mind.
I make enough money to mod my crx, or at least to make it reliable, that's all that concerns me now, seat time is good, but for me, it's who I do it with, honestly, it would be something that wouldn't interest me as much if I didn't have some friends to do it with. I'd still do it I'm sure, it's a passion of mine, just like music was for so many years, but without good friends to go through the trials and tribulations of the racing world, you're all alone, and to be honest I'm sure there's times where the stress gets to you, and having a friend be there for you is IMO important. I wouldn't forgo starting a family or buying a house, I've decided that unless I get out there and start winning races and somebody thinks I'm special, I will forever do this as a hobby, and keeping things in perspective is key to living a full life for me. I want to own a house, have a family, but still have the thrill of racing to go to when the real world gets tough. Even though I'm only doing DE's, that one weekend a month(or every other month if you're in AZ) is an escape from reality, you're with your friends, and nothing matters but you and your car.
Anyway, those are my thoughts, hope they made sense.
I don't race....yet....I'm currently doing HPDE's, I've had my CRX for 3 years, it's been swapped since feb. I've done 4 events this year so far, I take full advantage of seat time, I'm not afraid to have an instructor ride with me, even though I've progressed to HPDE 3.
As long as I can remember i've loved cars, in fact, I think it was my first word. All my relatives remember me as a kid always doing something, taking things apart, putting them back together(sometimes they worked, sometimes they didn't). I went to school for cars, not to work on them, but to get into the industry, and I must say, it's been a great year so far.
I grew up in Mansfield, Ohio, so I've been to Mid-Ohio many, many times, my dad used to do all their flyers and print work. I remember seeing Indy races there, IMSA, and I'm sure I saw a SCCA race or two before I even thought about racing myself...although being a car nut from the get go, it was always something in the back of my mind.
I make enough money to mod my crx, or at least to make it reliable, that's all that concerns me now, seat time is good, but for me, it's who I do it with, honestly, it would be something that wouldn't interest me as much if I didn't have some friends to do it with. I'd still do it I'm sure, it's a passion of mine, just like music was for so many years, but without good friends to go through the trials and tribulations of the racing world, you're all alone, and to be honest I'm sure there's times where the stress gets to you, and having a friend be there for you is IMO important. I wouldn't forgo starting a family or buying a house, I've decided that unless I get out there and start winning races and somebody thinks I'm special, I will forever do this as a hobby, and keeping things in perspective is key to living a full life for me. I want to own a house, have a family, but still have the thrill of racing to go to when the real world gets tough. Even though I'm only doing DE's, that one weekend a month(or every other month if you're in AZ) is an escape from reality, you're with your friends, and nothing matters but you and your car.
Anyway, those are my thoughts, hope they made sense.
Moderator
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,232
Likes: 5
From: Browns Summit, NC, USA
Re: How often should you really race...and at what cost...and for what reward...and, well,...WHY? (R
Originally Posted by RR98ITR
WHY DO YOU RACE?
Originally Posted by RR98ITR
Look deep into your soul, and explain why you want to race so much that you actually do it.
Originally Posted by RR98ITR
Then reflect on how you go about your racing and describe what that might say about why you race that you didn't say above.
Originally Posted by RR98ITR
What is it that gets you behind the wheel? Are you pursuing perfection behind the wheel?
Originally Posted by RR98ITR
Once there, behind the wheel, what happens to you? How do you feel on track? What are you thinking? If someone's experience and outlook is different than yours what do you think of that?
Originally Posted by RR98ITR
How much of the rest of your life should you sacrifice to race? And don't nitpick the word sacrifice - it's used in the sense that to do X you don't do Y. You can't usually do it all. It's about choices.
Originally Posted by RR98ITR
Would you forgo starting a family to pursue your racing hobby? Would you forgo buying a home? Remodeling a home? Properly maintaining a home? Investing for the future? Even having a wife or girlfriend?
Originally Posted by RR98ITR
I've got a friend/clubmate who races about 4 times a year - just enough to go to Mid-Ohio. And he usually brings back another National Championship. Do you think he races enough? He can't be driving at his full potential can he? He simply doesn't drive enough. But he must be driving very very well since he has significant manufacturer assistance and wins against very tough competition.
HE'S JUST PLAIN GOOD!!!
Originally Posted by RR98ITR
There's a big race coming up for Honda Challenge types. Why are some of you taking two or three weeks and spending nearly $10,000 to go to this race? That's crazy behavior - there's got to be a pretty big payoff to justify it....right? What is it?
Originally Posted by RR98ITR
Maybe you can't adequately express why you do this. Maybe it's just like being a little kid and seeing a bunch of other kids playing - and it makes you want to too! I guess I can't think of a better reason than that.
Rather OG
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,179
Likes: 0
From: Greensboro, NC
Re: How often should you really race...and at what cost...and for what reward...and, well,...WHY? (R
I won't be racing next year and hopefully selling the car/trailer/spares because the costs are just not worth it.
The one reason that I decided to go another year this year, was the camaraderie. I love the HC group. They're like family, but I can still enjoy that as I'm cheering them on as a Bookler flagger
Jason-
who hopes that whoever buys #32 will enjoy her as much as he has
The one reason that I decided to go another year this year, was the camaraderie. I love the HC group. They're like family, but I can still enjoy that as I'm cheering them on as a Bookler flagger
Jason-
who hopes that whoever buys #32 will enjoy her as much as he has
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,049
Likes: 2
From: Snowwhitepillowformybigfathead
Re: How often should you really race...and at what cost...and for what reward...and, well,...WHY? (R
I've seen that John.
But, I figure if it's ALL THAT, it'd be too hard to actually do - I certainly couldn't drive acceptably if a race was like a 30 minute orgasm.
But is that how you really see it?
Don't get me wrong - when I smell Bean Oil I'm transported to a happy place.
Scott, who reads this:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FLATOUTRACING »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I ... I am quite an accomplished writer but I don't think I could ever come up with something original that would beat this:
</TD></TR></TABLE>
...and wonders what it says in relation to the question...
But, I figure if it's ALL THAT, it'd be too hard to actually do - I certainly couldn't drive acceptably if a race was like a 30 minute orgasm.
But is that how you really see it?
Don't get me wrong - when I smell Bean Oil I'm transported to a happy place.
Scott, who reads this:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FLATOUTRACING »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I ... I am quite an accomplished writer but I don't think I could ever come up with something original that would beat this:
</TD></TR></TABLE>
...and wonders what it says in relation to the question...
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From: Shiny side up dammit, MO
Using the term 'race' loosely (since I don't race on track, only autocross), I race because it's in my blood. Every weekend something pulls in me and stops pulling when I arrive at the autocross.
My father was an autocrosser-turned-clubracer long before I was around. I hear stories of some of the earliest SoloII National Championships from my father. When I was born my mother sort of forced my father into retirement, but his love of racing never died.
Proof of this was the fact that he held on to all his old racing gear, including his car (which he finally sold, and I have relocated with hopes of buying it back for him). I grew up pretending to drive his Datsun roadster around imaginary racetracks while it sat on jackstands in the corner of our garage.
When I reached reading age I was always fascinated by Sports Car, not necessarily for the articles, but more for the pictures of the race cars. I would point at the pics and ask my father what they were and what they were doing. Usually my dad would use this opportunity to tell me about racing and offer me another story about his racing days.
I'll never grow tired of hearing my father describe his greatest (and worst) moments in racing. I have even had the chance to meet some of the Great Racers I have heard about in so many of my father's stories.
In '99 my father brought home a brand new Cobra. Shortly thereafter he took me to my first autocross where I got my first taste of racing. I was hooked. I knew as soon as we arrived at the event site that I wanted to race.
That was almost 5 years ago. My father has since stopped autocrossing. The cobra has now been put on the shelf in favor of a more sedate activity, gardening, and I have spent considerable time and money building my integra for STS. I think in same way my dad knows his job is done. He passed the racing 'legacy' on to me, and with it passed his desire to drive, to compete, and to win.
To some what I have accomplished in the racing world is little. But in my eyes, and in the eyes of my father, I'm already a champion. I only have one National Championship trophy in my case, but that's not important. What is important is that I found what it is I want to do.
In three semesters I'll be done with college. After that I'm off to driving school. In the interim I will continue to compete in as many autocrosses and ProSolo's as my already strapped wallet will allow. I fully except that in order to have even a tiny degree of sucess in racing I will become very familiar with the definition of 'sacrifice,' but I'm ok with that. Chasing that small sliver of victory is what keeps me happy and keeps me going, even if my world is falling down around me.
In conclusion, I really can't pinpoint why I race, and why I will continue to race. I mean there are the obvious reasons, but sometimes they all seem so cliche. I suppose you could say I'm following my instinct, much like a bird follow's its instinct and flies south for the winter.
-Carl
My father was an autocrosser-turned-clubracer long before I was around. I hear stories of some of the earliest SoloII National Championships from my father. When I was born my mother sort of forced my father into retirement, but his love of racing never died.
Proof of this was the fact that he held on to all his old racing gear, including his car (which he finally sold, and I have relocated with hopes of buying it back for him). I grew up pretending to drive his Datsun roadster around imaginary racetracks while it sat on jackstands in the corner of our garage.
When I reached reading age I was always fascinated by Sports Car, not necessarily for the articles, but more for the pictures of the race cars. I would point at the pics and ask my father what they were and what they were doing. Usually my dad would use this opportunity to tell me about racing and offer me another story about his racing days.
I'll never grow tired of hearing my father describe his greatest (and worst) moments in racing. I have even had the chance to meet some of the Great Racers I have heard about in so many of my father's stories.
In '99 my father brought home a brand new Cobra. Shortly thereafter he took me to my first autocross where I got my first taste of racing. I was hooked. I knew as soon as we arrived at the event site that I wanted to race.
That was almost 5 years ago. My father has since stopped autocrossing. The cobra has now been put on the shelf in favor of a more sedate activity, gardening, and I have spent considerable time and money building my integra for STS. I think in same way my dad knows his job is done. He passed the racing 'legacy' on to me, and with it passed his desire to drive, to compete, and to win.
To some what I have accomplished in the racing world is little. But in my eyes, and in the eyes of my father, I'm already a champion. I only have one National Championship trophy in my case, but that's not important. What is important is that I found what it is I want to do.
In three semesters I'll be done with college. After that I'm off to driving school. In the interim I will continue to compete in as many autocrosses and ProSolo's as my already strapped wallet will allow. I fully except that in order to have even a tiny degree of sucess in racing I will become very familiar with the definition of 'sacrifice,' but I'm ok with that. Chasing that small sliver of victory is what keeps me happy and keeps me going, even if my world is falling down around me.
In conclusion, I really can't pinpoint why I race, and why I will continue to race. I mean there are the obvious reasons, but sometimes they all seem so cliche. I suppose you could say I'm following my instinct, much like a bird follow's its instinct and flies south for the winter.
-Carl
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,014
Likes: 2
From: Shiny side up dammit, MO
Re: How often should you really race...and at what cost...and for what reward...and, well,...WHY? (R
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Greyout »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You pose your question with the incorrect pretext that most here have any self-control or objective rationale when it comes to deciding 'if its worth it'</TD></TR></TABLE>
The moment I decided to participate in motorsports was also the exact same moment I threw out my ability to be logical and rational.
If you step back and look at what we (racers) are doing, it really seems quite silly, but I love it nonetheless.
You pose your question with the incorrect pretext that most here have any self-control or objective rationale when it comes to deciding 'if its worth it'</TD></TR></TABLE>
The moment I decided to participate in motorsports was also the exact same moment I threw out my ability to be logical and rational.
If you step back and look at what we (racers) are doing, it really seems quite silly, but I love it nonetheless.
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From: Somewhere, doing a rain dance.
Re: (carl_aka_carlos)
It's about controlling the uncontrollable. Bringing a machine up to and beyond its limits and bringing it back are what do it for me.
I sometimes wonder if I'm not as fast as I could be because I love pushing the envelope so much. I get nearly the same joy out of saving a spin as I do putting a really fast run/lap down.
The competition is important and the best way to motivate me but ultimately secondary.
The camaraderie is icing on the cake.
My thoughts about racing are rational... my desire to test my mettle against physics is not.
Andy
I sometimes wonder if I'm not as fast as I could be because I love pushing the envelope so much. I get nearly the same joy out of saving a spin as I do putting a really fast run/lap down.
The competition is important and the best way to motivate me but ultimately secondary.
The camaraderie is icing on the cake.
My thoughts about racing are rational... my desire to test my mettle against physics is not.
Andy
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,722
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From: Plotting My Revenge
Re: (jzr)
Well, why does Scott R. pontificate endlessly about things like wheel rate and dynamic weight transfer? Why does he spend so much money to have the pimpyest, most adjustable, most capable parts available? Why does he park his car for months at a time while contemplating how to make it faster?
Well, he does these things for the same reasons I do things the way I do them. Its how he wants to do it.
I hate working on the car. Hate changing shocks. Hate adjusting swaybars. Hate applying thought to how to make it do this or that better.
I LOVE driving it.
Scott, who tinkers with the car because its neccessary to race well while the other Scott races to give himself an excuse to tinker with the car.
PS - The actual answer to the question is 42. But don't tell anyone.
Well, he does these things for the same reasons I do things the way I do them. Its how he wants to do it.
I hate working on the car. Hate changing shocks. Hate adjusting swaybars. Hate applying thought to how to make it do this or that better.
I LOVE driving it.
Scott, who tinkers with the car because its neccessary to race well while the other Scott races to give himself an excuse to tinker with the car.
PS - The actual answer to the question is 42. But don't tell anyone.
a/k/a Jomo
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 6,275
Likes: 0
Re: How often should you really race...and at what cost...and for what reward...and, well,...WHY? (R
I couldn't quit if I tried....and believe me I've tried. Not because I wanted to, but every once in a while you just ask yourself why you are investing time and money in probably the most depreciating thing EVER. So you try and manage money better and make wiser investment choices and not spend so much on racing and I can't. I open and honestly will admit that I would need to seek some sort of outside help. I mean I've changed my entire lifestyle. $100 a weekend at the bar is brake pads or gas for the car and diesel for the truck or etc... You start thinking about that stuff. So the going out and partying every night takes a back seat. You say to yourself well maybe just on the weekends. Then you start loosing touch with old friends because you rarely see them anymore, but at the same time are making new contacts and friends in the "industry". Upon meeting those friends you have an opportunity to crew for a GT1 car. Well of course you openly accept. I mean this is of the top echelon of Club Racing. So now your weekends are occupied by either crewing and/or racing yourself. You change your career path to be in some what affiliated with the "industry". So now not only are your weekends gone working on cars, but so is your work week. When again do I have time to work on my own car? I really don't know. Some sort of space time continuum I assume. Soon it engulfs your entire life and everything revolves around it. I won't even get STARTED on women. Basically she will have to be as crazy as I am. Haven't found that one yet.
Now a lot of people can look at this post and say this guy is nucking futs, maybe a little crazy etc... I made my own choices and you know what....
I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. I am more happier now then I think I've ever been. Maybe it's the old/wise vs young/stupid, but hey with out taking chances where would we all be... Maybe one day I'll just wake up and do a 180.
For right now though I plan on riding this wave to the bitter end or sweet rather.
Now a lot of people can look at this post and say this guy is nucking futs, maybe a little crazy etc... I made my own choices and you know what....
I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. I am more happier now then I think I've ever been. Maybe it's the old/wise vs young/stupid, but hey with out taking chances where would we all be... Maybe one day I'll just wake up and do a 180.
For right now though I plan on riding this wave to the bitter end or sweet rather.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,049
Likes: 2
From: Snowwhitepillowformybigfathead
Re: (Catch 22)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, why does Scott R. pontificate endlessly...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Uhm.....
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FLATOUTRACING »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's about supremacy, being top dog, king of the hill, head honcho, the big kahuna; standing out above the crowd, being number one, the best.
....hold-onto-your-hats-geez-I'm-gonna-wet-my-pants
And it's about power. It's body wrenched and twisted blind raging Herculean monster
It's about brilliant flashes of light, ear-splitting shrieks and the cramp
It's about burning perverse love
exalting in its greatness
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Scott, to whom it's just never occured to be any other way..."but that's just me"...
Modified by RR98ITR at 4:34 PM 8/13/2004
Uhm.....
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FLATOUTRACING »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's about supremacy, being top dog, king of the hill, head honcho, the big kahuna; standing out above the crowd, being number one, the best.
....hold-onto-your-hats-geez-I'm-gonna-wet-my-pants
And it's about power. It's body wrenched and twisted blind raging Herculean monster
It's about brilliant flashes of light, ear-splitting shrieks and the cramp
It's about burning perverse love
exalting in its greatness
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Scott, to whom it's just never occured to be any other way..."but that's just me"...
Modified by RR98ITR at 4:34 PM 8/13/2004
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 461
Likes: 0
From: Birmingham, AL, USA
Re: How often should you really race...and at what cost...and for what reward...and, well,...WHY? (R
I have no reason, other than I have to.
I race road bikes. I ride 4-6 days a week, about 15 hours, so that I'm strong.
I race mountian bikes. I might only ride the MTB twice in a month, just so I don't forget to throw it around in the singletrack.
I've just started racing cars. My first auto-x event was the equivlent of getting dropped in a crit, which is what happened in my first crit.
One thing I can't explain: When I'm standing on the line in the big ring with one foot clipped into the pedal ready to get the other foot in and sprint into the first corner I am so nervous that my hands are literally shaking. From the time I roll into the grid to the time I launch it into 1st I am so nervous that my hands are literally shaking. I can't expaiin that feelings, I can't get rid of it (sometime I really wish I could) but there is nothing like it.
I race road bikes. I ride 4-6 days a week, about 15 hours, so that I'm strong.
I race mountian bikes. I might only ride the MTB twice in a month, just so I don't forget to throw it around in the singletrack.
I've just started racing cars. My first auto-x event was the equivlent of getting dropped in a crit, which is what happened in my first crit.
One thing I can't explain: When I'm standing on the line in the big ring with one foot clipped into the pedal ready to get the other foot in and sprint into the first corner I am so nervous that my hands are literally shaking. From the time I roll into the grid to the time I launch it into 1st I am so nervous that my hands are literally shaking. I can't expaiin that feelings, I can't get rid of it (sometime I really wish I could) but there is nothing like it.
Re: (Catch 22)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
PS - The actual answer to the question is 42. But don't tell anyone.</TD></TR></TABLE>
lol
PS - The actual answer to the question is 42. But don't tell anyone.</TD></TR></TABLE>
lol
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 635
Likes: 0
From: Fairfax, Va, Fairfax
Re: How often should you really race...and at what cost...and for what reward...and, well,...WHY? (R
Scott,
To answer your question with something more that just a "cut and paste" answer from a website. I think the environment you grow up in has something to do with it.
I grew up in Germany home of the autobahn and Porsche/BMW/Merc/Audi.
Germans like anything mechanical and often times you will see grown men in Germany indulging in model RC airplanes, model boats and model trains. It's not unusual to see grown men stand at the observation decks at airports just admiring the airplanes taking off and landing for hours on end. My dad and I did that all the time. We also would go to the harbor to watch the big ships come in.
And of course my father loved to watch racing and competed in open wheel up until he got to what is now the equivelent of F3 in Europe.
What sealed it for me was a shotgun ride in a Porsche 906 at the Porsche test track when I was only 8 years of age.
From that moment on I was hooked on anything with four wheels that was fast.
I am addicted to speed plain and simple. Nothing else does it for me like pure speed.
I like fast cars, fighter jets, motorcycles and anything else fast.
I have been fortunate enough to indulge in my passions and own many great and fast cars. Up until a few years ago it was mainly street cars, but I was fasinated with speed. I topped out every car I ever bought. From a lowly Volvo 240 GL (first car and first time to barely break 100 mph going down a hill) to a F355 which I took to a speedometer indicated 190 on a public highway.
I've been a passenger in a 959 Sport at the Glen with Hans Stuck driving. I've been in an Acura Spice IMSA Camel Lights GTP car with Parker Johnstone at the wheel. I've driven my F355 Challenge at Pocono to 180 + on the back straight (130 in the corners).
But the ultimate test of speed was being a passenger at Mach 2 on the Concorde.
Looking back over the years I drove street cars at really insane speeds it's a wonder I am alive today. Other than one really evil 300ZX Twin Turbo that I wrecked three times I have been fairly safe.
I've been a race fan all my life. I've atteneded at least 30+ INDY/CART races, been to the 500 half a dozen times (until IRL took over), I am an F1 fanatic (huge Senna fan...my son's middle name is Ayrton) and the list goes on and on.
I took up driving schools in the mid 90's and after about 5 years was bored and wanted to go racing. Best thing and worst thing I ever did. Nothing can match the feeling of wheel to wheel racing but then again it like an addiction that I can't stop.
I've traded in all my expensive indulgences to spend all my disposable income on racing.
I guess it make me feel important, makes me feel like I have some magical power over a car that other's don't have, and more than anything else in my life REQUIRES TOTAL FOCUS ALL THE TIME.
I have a lot of stress in my life (up until a year ago I worked 80 hour weeks, helping raise a family, etc...). The one time I can totally forget all this and focus on task at hand is in a race car. It clears you mind like nothing else can.
Also the wheel to wheel racing is just pure adrenaline. When I tell my old track friends I race a car (Spec Racer Ford) that has 105 horsepower they just scratch their heads. How can that be fun they ask? Well 62 cars at VIR back in May of 2002 was a highlight for me. Running nose to tail with Ginsberg and Kent for nearly the entire race was pure adrenaline at Hyperfest.
I am a racing fan pure and simple. If I had to......I'd race you all on a John Deere.
I watch any form of racing. I don't discriminate. How many people do you know that are F1 fanatics but also watch every Sears Craftsman Nascar Truck Race. I can name you all the drivers and who is leading the championship right now (race on tomorrow on Speed).
I guess the answer is......if I could explain it to you...........or if I have to..........then you would not understand.
The piece I posted above from the internet really does explain what I like about racing and how it makes me feel.
Racing to me is like the game of life. As my slogan on my website says "Second Place is .......first among the losers!"
As Chad pointed out, everytime I get into the car I feel like I am going to win. If you don't think that way you are in trouble.
People always wonder how F1 drivers can be so arrogant and cocky, some of whom have never won a title or even won a race. But to race you have to think that way. At the very minumim you have to believe that you have it in you to win. Maybe you are not yet skilled or experienced enough to actually win yet, but everyone has to believe that at some point in the future you will have what it takes to win. If you don't think this way....I can't understand why one would race.
Like they say.............Basketball, Football, Baseball and Soccer REQUIRE ONLY ONE BALL !!!!
Regards,
Jon
To answer your question with something more that just a "cut and paste" answer from a website. I think the environment you grow up in has something to do with it.
I grew up in Germany home of the autobahn and Porsche/BMW/Merc/Audi.
Germans like anything mechanical and often times you will see grown men in Germany indulging in model RC airplanes, model boats and model trains. It's not unusual to see grown men stand at the observation decks at airports just admiring the airplanes taking off and landing for hours on end. My dad and I did that all the time. We also would go to the harbor to watch the big ships come in.
And of course my father loved to watch racing and competed in open wheel up until he got to what is now the equivelent of F3 in Europe.
What sealed it for me was a shotgun ride in a Porsche 906 at the Porsche test track when I was only 8 years of age.
From that moment on I was hooked on anything with four wheels that was fast.
I am addicted to speed plain and simple. Nothing else does it for me like pure speed.
I like fast cars, fighter jets, motorcycles and anything else fast.
I have been fortunate enough to indulge in my passions and own many great and fast cars. Up until a few years ago it was mainly street cars, but I was fasinated with speed. I topped out every car I ever bought. From a lowly Volvo 240 GL (first car and first time to barely break 100 mph going down a hill) to a F355 which I took to a speedometer indicated 190 on a public highway.
I've been a passenger in a 959 Sport at the Glen with Hans Stuck driving. I've been in an Acura Spice IMSA Camel Lights GTP car with Parker Johnstone at the wheel. I've driven my F355 Challenge at Pocono to 180 + on the back straight (130 in the corners).
But the ultimate test of speed was being a passenger at Mach 2 on the Concorde.
Looking back over the years I drove street cars at really insane speeds it's a wonder I am alive today. Other than one really evil 300ZX Twin Turbo that I wrecked three times I have been fairly safe.
I've been a race fan all my life. I've atteneded at least 30+ INDY/CART races, been to the 500 half a dozen times (until IRL took over), I am an F1 fanatic (huge Senna fan...my son's middle name is Ayrton) and the list goes on and on.
I took up driving schools in the mid 90's and after about 5 years was bored and wanted to go racing. Best thing and worst thing I ever did. Nothing can match the feeling of wheel to wheel racing but then again it like an addiction that I can't stop.
I've traded in all my expensive indulgences to spend all my disposable income on racing.
I guess it make me feel important, makes me feel like I have some magical power over a car that other's don't have, and more than anything else in my life REQUIRES TOTAL FOCUS ALL THE TIME.
I have a lot of stress in my life (up until a year ago I worked 80 hour weeks, helping raise a family, etc...). The one time I can totally forget all this and focus on task at hand is in a race car. It clears you mind like nothing else can.
Also the wheel to wheel racing is just pure adrenaline. When I tell my old track friends I race a car (Spec Racer Ford) that has 105 horsepower they just scratch their heads. How can that be fun they ask? Well 62 cars at VIR back in May of 2002 was a highlight for me. Running nose to tail with Ginsberg and Kent for nearly the entire race was pure adrenaline at Hyperfest.
I am a racing fan pure and simple. If I had to......I'd race you all on a John Deere.
I watch any form of racing. I don't discriminate. How many people do you know that are F1 fanatics but also watch every Sears Craftsman Nascar Truck Race. I can name you all the drivers and who is leading the championship right now (race on tomorrow on Speed).
I guess the answer is......if I could explain it to you...........or if I have to..........then you would not understand.
The piece I posted above from the internet really does explain what I like about racing and how it makes me feel.
Racing to me is like the game of life. As my slogan on my website says "Second Place is .......first among the losers!"
As Chad pointed out, everytime I get into the car I feel like I am going to win. If you don't think that way you are in trouble.
People always wonder how F1 drivers can be so arrogant and cocky, some of whom have never won a title or even won a race. But to race you have to think that way. At the very minumim you have to believe that you have it in you to win. Maybe you are not yet skilled or experienced enough to actually win yet, but everyone has to believe that at some point in the future you will have what it takes to win. If you don't think this way....I can't understand why one would race.
Like they say.............Basketball, Football, Baseball and Soccer REQUIRE ONLY ONE BALL !!!!
Regards,
Jon
Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,381
Likes: 0
From: Springfield, Va, USA
Re: How often should you really race...and at what cost...and for what reward...and, well,...WHY? (R
Let's try again.
Why do I race? not to win, particularly, although that'd be fun. My other sport is fishing, and it's not a competition, at least not against other people. It's against the environment; the weather, the fish, the water, the season. And when I pick the right fly, and make the right cast, and hit the right spot, it all comes together. Even if the trout doesn't take my fly, I know everything was done right...the best it could be.
Racing to me is the same. It's against the track, and the conditions, and the other cars. Not as competitors, but as parts of the environment. And sometimes, but not always, I and the car and the track and the weather and everything else will come together, and I know that one more ounce of pressure on the throttle, or one degree difference on the wheel, or any of a hundred other little things, would be just that little too much, and I'm balanced on that knife edge, and it's all as right as it can be.
That instant, that one moment, is worth the time under the car, and the price of the parts that wear or break, and the 10 hour tows, and the cheesy motels, and the tires, and the time away from home. It's why I come back.
Why do I race? not to win, particularly, although that'd be fun. My other sport is fishing, and it's not a competition, at least not against other people. It's against the environment; the weather, the fish, the water, the season. And when I pick the right fly, and make the right cast, and hit the right spot, it all comes together. Even if the trout doesn't take my fly, I know everything was done right...the best it could be.
Racing to me is the same. It's against the track, and the conditions, and the other cars. Not as competitors, but as parts of the environment. And sometimes, but not always, I and the car and the track and the weather and everything else will come together, and I know that one more ounce of pressure on the throttle, or one degree difference on the wheel, or any of a hundred other little things, would be just that little too much, and I'm balanced on that knife edge, and it's all as right as it can be.
That instant, that one moment, is worth the time under the car, and the price of the parts that wear or break, and the 10 hour tows, and the cheesy motels, and the tires, and the time away from home. It's why I come back.
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,093
Likes: 0
From: where typeRs grow on trees, NC
Re: How often should you really race...and at what cost...and for what reward...and, well,...WHY? (R
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jason Franza »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I won't be racing next year and hopefully selling the car/trailer/spares because the costs are just not worth it.
The one reason that I decided to go another year this year, was the camaraderie. I love the HC group. They're like family, but I can still enjoy that as I'm cheering them on as a Bookler flagger
Jason-
who hopes that whoever buys #32 will enjoy her as much as he has</TD></TR></TABLE>
The one reason that I decided to go another year this year, was the camaraderie. I love the HC group. They're like family, but I can still enjoy that as I'm cheering them on as a Bookler flagger
Jason-
who hopes that whoever buys #32 will enjoy her as much as he has
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton, Canada
lots of great answers, mine's simple:
HPDEs (I'm not a full fledged racer yet) make me focus on the task at hand and nothing else is in my mind.
I experience the determination and motivation that I lack elsewhere in my life.
HPDEs (I'm not a full fledged racer yet) make me focus on the task at hand and nothing else is in my mind.
I experience the determination and motivation that I lack elsewhere in my life.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,657
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix, AZ
Re: (REFLUX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by REFLUX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lots of great answers, mine's simple:
HPDEs (I'm not a full fledged racer yet) make me focus on the task at hand and nothing else is in my mind.
I experience the determination and motivation that I lack elsewhere in my life.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I could not agree with this statement more...
HPDEs (I'm not a full fledged racer yet) make me focus on the task at hand and nothing else is in my mind.
I experience the determination and motivation that I lack elsewhere in my life.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I could not agree with this statement more...
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,480
Likes: 0
Re: (PSUCRX)
I race to get da bishes yO!
and to fulfill some underage dramatic sequence of life events custom tailored to my own ego and personnal fame requirements
actually it's all therapy for the grid lock everyday on the way to work
and to fulfill some underage dramatic sequence of life events custom tailored to my own ego and personnal fame requirements
actually it's all therapy for the grid lock everyday on the way to work
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,454
Likes: 0
From: No. VA
Re: (eg1R)
I don't get to race kaa's yet, but I've been racing bicycles for 5 years now.
To avoid being cliche, and yeah, Lance has always been my hero, I think he really hit the nail on the head.
"At the end of the day, it's me versus the other guys. That's what keeps me going... "
Isn't that what racing is, 'eh?
To avoid being cliche, and yeah, Lance has always been my hero, I think he really hit the nail on the head.
"At the end of the day, it's me versus the other guys. That's what keeps me going... "
Isn't that what racing is, 'eh?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 13,483
Likes: 0
From: cali
Re: (Grumpy)
why do i race?
because i love it.
and you should race only to the point were it is fun, now i know some weekend suck and shitty thing happen but i still like it and its still fun.
as soon as i don't look forward to it any more i stop doing it. then i start messing it then i start again.
after all it cost alot of money and i don't think any of us are pro racers if you are then your excluded, but why do it if you don't like it,
because i love it.
and you should race only to the point were it is fun, now i know some weekend suck and shitty thing happen but i still like it and its still fun.
as soon as i don't look forward to it any more i stop doing it. then i start messing it then i start again.
after all it cost alot of money and i don't think any of us are pro racers if you are then your excluded, but why do it if you don't like it,
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