Nearly 1/3 of the entries in SM for Solo2 Nationals this year are Hondas. Not a bad showing at all! Good luck fellas! Wish I was there...

 

Recently I've been curious as to the viability of Honda hybrids in Street Mod, as I've been out of the Solo2 loop for a while now. Guess I'll find out in a month or so.

Who on the board is stepping up?

 

I imagine Rodney will make the trek out this year. He did surprisingly well for his first time out last year (4th place I believe).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carl_aka_carlos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I imagine Rodney will make the trek out this year. He did surprisingly well for his first time out last year (4th place I believe).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yep, he's definitely our top prospect. There is one other guy that did fairly well last year... Can't think of his name off the top of my head, and I'm too lazy to go look at the results.

 

Not taking anything away from any of the FWD cars, but the rain last year on the 1st day did help them out considerably, especially when guys like Tunnell didn't bring any rain tires (that I still can't figure out).

It is certainly an uphill climb in SM with a FWD SM car, and I wish them the best of luck.

 

I wondered which way rain would affect the results...

The M3's definitely have the upper hand, but I don't know if anyone has invested even half of what a lot of those M3's have in them. Get a great driver and dump at least $50k (+ years of development) into a Civic and it might be very comparable. Of course, if I had that kind of bank I don't know that I'd be spending it on a Civic.

 

Tunnel had rains (Yokohama's I believe) he just couldn't decide which tires to run in the changing conditions.

 

Lighter is better. I've always thought since it's inception that a well done torquey B20 swap in a light H/A application (sub 2300 lbs if possible) could clean house in SM. I'm thinking like a 88-91 Hatch.

Yep. Clean house. Just need a top driver.

 

I've always thought a good SM car would be:

'88 Civic DX
B18C5
good tuning
chipped ecu
i wonder if cams are allowed?
LSD?
remove the sunroof for replacement piece
remove rear seats

bam, should have a good 190-200bhp Civic at around 2100lbs with driver and LSD.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Lighter is better. I've always thought since it's inception that a well done torquey B20 swap in a light H/A application (sub 2300 lbs if possible) could clean house in SM. I'm thinking like a 88-91 Hatch.

Yep. Clean house. Just need a top driver.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The ticket to cleaning up in SM would be to come in at 1800lbs or so. It'll be tough but possible, considering that the now banned STS FrankenCivics were a hair over 2000lbs, and race seats were not allowed then. Just swapping the front seats and removing the rears is about 70-80lbs. Some lightweight fenders, hood, front fascia, 13"s... Lightened suspension pieces like control arms maybe. Would have to stay with the much lighter D-series though. A radical built, carb'd or ITB'd D16 at around 160-170WHP with properly matched gearing should be enough.

That's in theory of course...

 

Well at the DC Tour a 1988 Civic DX driven by Chris Shenefield (2003 STS National Champion) came in 2nd place in SM. And they just finished the car the Wedensday before and eyeballed the alignment (from what I heard). I worked the heat (6th) that SM ran and their car was FLYING! I think that they could have taken home 1st if they had more time to fix the alignment. I was by the stadium and I don't think they lifted on the gas once through our section.

I know a couple of other people who are going the 1988 Civic DX route. One guy who is selling his 1991 MR2 to go to SM. I think Chris said the 1988 Civic DX they had was around 1900lbs - and the class limit for FWD is 1800lbs, right?

 

Lighter IS better*


*damn near 100% of the time in autocross. When someone gets *serious* with a H/A swap, the 3000lb M3s are toast.

IMO, YMMV, void where prohibited, not legal tender, blah, blah, blah....

Matt&lt;--owns a good STS car, but it isn't as good as a 300 lb lighter Si.....


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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A radical built, carb'd or ITB'd D16 at around 160-170WHP with properly matched gearing should be enough.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think I'll take a 200 whp B20vtec. It can't be *that* much heavier, can it????

 

rodney's car is pretty serious, but those m3s are freaking killer.

1800lbs in the limit n/a. IMO 1800lbs is pretty difficult given the rules of SM (for an EG). what isn't as difficult is the 1900lb limit on a forced induction car... maybe an EF could get down to 1800, but an EG? not too sure.

i'm thinking b20vtec w/ a supercharger or very very very small turbo might be the trick, torque and a smooth powerband reaally are key.

but hey, what does it matter? isn't racing 95% driver?

FWIW - a b-series is around 50lbs heavier than a d-series. i've never really given a d-series thought as an SM competitor, but it is worth a look.

 

Someday people will be asking "M what?" when it comes to Street Modified after I build up my '83 Civic hatch to run in the class.

Hey, its at 1,774 stock with the 1.3L, I wonder what a final weight figure would be if prepped near the max for the class.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sean O’Gorman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey, its at 1,774 stock with the 1.3L, I wonder what a final weight figure would be if prepped near the max for the class.</TD></TR></TABLE>

1800lbs

 

I meant before ballast.

 

I'm thinking the e-ticket FWD SM setup would involve a K20 in an EG. I'm also thinking forced induction wouldn't be necessary.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think I'll take a 200 whp B20vtec. It can't be *that* much heavier, can it????</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, i never found any conclusive 100 percent accurate info on this, but in general a b18-b20 complete drivetrain is roughly anywhere between 70-90lbs heavier than the d-series.

The 91 shop manual spec's the D16 engine at 219lbs wet (engine only), figure the tranny is about 60lbs. Most numbers for B18s-B20s i've seen, suggest a weight of around 350lbs.

70-90lbs is a shitload of weight in an 1800lbs car, especially if it happens to be hanging over the front wheels. I remember Chris Shennefield posting once upon a time that the difference between his frankencivic and an Si was &lt;50lbs but was consistently worth ~.4 sec on a 50 seconds course with identical setups. Maybe he'll chime in on this thread....

Anyway, i'm not going to take anyone's word for it when it comes to engine weight. I will get a hold of a B18C, B20, D16 and maybe an H22 for good measure, weigh them all and make the final decision for my SM drivetrain then. Supposedely H22s are not as heavy as everyone thinks they are, once all the accesories and brackets are removed. All I need is an alternator anyways...

But if the D is at least 60lbs lighter, i'm going with that.

 

The d-series engine is a considerable amount lighter then the b-series. And trying to get a EF down to 1800lbs is more difficult then it seems. I was ready to swap out my b16 for a built d-series this summer, but I decided to leave it in and learn how to drive the car. Its "very" easy to get to 1800 with a d-series. The eg would be more difficult because it weighs more then the ef by about 100lbs more stock. I wish I knew how to drive I would go to Topeka, I would even skip a week of school.
The frankencivic that my boss/friend used to run was kind of a freak of nature, It was about 100 lbs lighter then the si if I remember correctly. The motor is that car was awesome though, even though it didn't have anything done to it. It just ran great and the car handle great as well.

 

you need a nice 88 CRX Hf with rear disks(conversion obviously)... B18 (maybe B20).... you can get an EF with a B motor down real close to that 1800lbs mark.

 

...I've been researching swapped Honda CRXen as the next track toy. In doing so I found this analysis of motor weights. Might be useful information to some of you.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=684550

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MMsportsRexSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you need a nice 88 CRX Hf with rear disks(conversion obviously)... B18 (maybe B20).... you can get an EF with a B motor down real close to that 1800lbs mark.</TD></TR></TABLE>

why would you need rear discs?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carl_aka_carlos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm thinking the e-ticket FWD SM setup would involve a K20 in an EG. I'm also thinking forced induction wouldn't be necessary.</TD></TR></TABLE>

deffinetly k series, k20 or k24

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sean O’Gorman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I meant before ballast. </TD></TR></TABLE>

What kind of legal ballast do you plan to add?

I can't wait to see the sound system. ;-)

 

There are so many easy ways to legally add weight in SM, it's not a problem. My 86 Civic (7th place last year) has about 180lbs of what is basically ballast in order to get up to 1900 lbs for forced induction. I have to run the fuel tank completely full (~70lbs of extra gas). I have a roll bar that weighs around 85 lbs, and I have an air to water intercooler with the 3 gal tank mounted on the back that weighs about 30 lbs.

Light weight alone isn't going to win SM, and it's doubtful that anyone is going to pony up the $40k on a Civic to build one to the same level that some of the M3s are at. John Fesler has built a 5th gen purposly for SM, with a strong CRVTEC motor and a really nice collection of parts. It's only been running for a few months, so it isn't completely sorted, but it seems to have plenty of potential.

What's interesting to me is how many Civics are registered compared to other cars. It's all M3's and Civics. Seems like everyone else is afraid to play with us.


-Chris (who will be praying for rain BOTH days - and for a South course that isn't a bunch of 180's connected by too short straights)