What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap?
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From: Thunderhill, CA
What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap?
Hey guys
I'm not considering this swap, well, maybe after a few hundred thousand miles but thats a looooong time away. I just want to know what the main limiting factor there is between the prelude chassis and the k-series of engines. Is it fabricating the wiring harness or mounts? Crankshaft rotation? Space? Price of the engines themselves? What exactly is it that makes the swap so difficult and why hasnt it been done yet? Thanks all for your time.
I'm not considering this swap, well, maybe after a few hundred thousand miles but thats a looooong time away. I just want to know what the main limiting factor there is between the prelude chassis and the k-series of engines. Is it fabricating the wiring harness or mounts? Crankshaft rotation? Space? Price of the engines themselves? What exactly is it that makes the swap so difficult and why hasnt it been done yet? Thanks all for your time.
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From: Florida
Re: What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap? (Hank the retard)
for one thing the motor is backwards...your intake is on the front and the exhaust is on the back.....so evrything is really different not to mention the wiring nightmare that im sure that would cause
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From: Thunderhill, CA
Re: What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap? (PreludeRacer023)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PreludeRacer023 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">for one thing the motor is backwards...your intake is on the front and the exhaust is on the back.....so evrything is really different not to mention the wiring nightmare that im sure that would cause</TD></TR></TABLE>
Indeed it is, but that hasnt stopped civic guys from doing a k20 swap, there has to be other reasons why the prelude isnt a popular swap for it.
Indeed it is, but that hasnt stopped civic guys from doing a k20 swap, there has to be other reasons why the prelude isnt a popular swap for it.
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From: Silver Spring, MD
Re: What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap? (Hank the retard)
I'm sure it could be done, anything with enough money is possible. The real question is why do it. Sure the k24 engine probably has more potential and is slightly bigger in displacement but it doesnt make much sense when you compare the H22 and K24 in terms of stock output. For the amount of money you'd probably spend on the engine and custom fabrication you could do one hell of an engine build up or turbo on the H22. I suspect if it ever happens it will go into a car like a 4th gen Si cause it doesn't make much sense to do it in a 5th gen.
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From: Thunderhill, CA
Re: What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap? (Kal)
Hmm, yeah, you guys all seem to agree that mounts is the biggie. Well, someday mounts will be made, but not until the price of a K-series swap goes down. Like mike said, for the same amount of cash, you could build a bitchin h22 
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Re: What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap? (PreludeRacer023)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PreludeRacer023 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">for one thing the motor is backwards...your intake is on the front and the exhaust is on the back.....so evrything is really different not to mention the wiring nightmare that im sure that would cause</TD></TR></TABLE>
this is the second ignorant post I have read by you in the past 2 minutes.
HAS is working on a mount kit for accords, which will be virtually the same for preludes.
this is the second ignorant post I have read by you in the past 2 minutes.
HAS is working on a mount kit for accords, which will be virtually the same for preludes.
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From: wet Dreaming, over 400whp, USA
Re: What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap? (Greyout)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Greyout »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the K motor is lighter weight then a B-series, that would be a big difference right there.</TD></TR></TABLE>The h22 weighs 4- lbs more than the b-series. Not worth the hassle or the money to be lighter than a b-series. The weight difference between a b-series and a k can't be more than 10-15 lbs
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From: Austin, Tx, USA
Re: What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap? (Matgallis)
I thought the transmission alone weighs like 20lbs more at least, and the total difference in weight was closer to 85 lbs
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From: Thunderhill, CA
Re: What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap? (Matgallis)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Matgallis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The h22 weighs 4- lbs more than the b-series. Not worth the hassle or the money to be lighter than a b-series. The weight difference between a b-series and a k can't be more than 10-15 lbs</TD></TR></TABLE>
Agreed.
To me, the only reason why i would want a k-motor is for the sheer gains that simple mods yield. We all know that simple boltons + reflash will put an RSX-S motor somewhere around 200whp. The engine just seems to make more power more efficiantly; i dont want to ask how, it's not the right forum
But that's neither here nor there, the ease of modability is augmented by a steep price for fabrication and parts. Maybe in a few years when more rsx's have been totaled 
/rambling
Agreed.
To me, the only reason why i would want a k-motor is for the sheer gains that simple mods yield. We all know that simple boltons + reflash will put an RSX-S motor somewhere around 200whp. The engine just seems to make more power more efficiantly; i dont want to ask how, it's not the right forum
But that's neither here nor there, the ease of modability is augmented by a steep price for fabrication and parts. Maybe in a few years when more rsx's have been totaled /rambling
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From: Norwalk, CT
Re: What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap? (Matgallis)
From everything I've read, the H22 is more like 80 pounds heavier than a B18. Figure the K20's weight is lighter than a B18, we're looking at up to 100 pounds off the front end, which is is an attractive proposition . . . .
But it's not really any ONE thing that makes it hard to do - it's the combination of it all that makes it a daunting project. For example, even if there were a bolt-in mount kit available, you'd need a completely custom header, as well as custom axles. The shifter & cables would need attention, as would the clutch. Wiring up our gauges to work with the K-series ECU would be another challenge. Getting the engine wired up in general would be very labor-intensive - you'd most likely need to relocate the fuse box to the other side of the car. There's bound to be clearance issues with cruise control, a/c, alternator, battery, etc. The Prelude is pretty low profile, so there's a better than average chance you'd need a custom hood to clear the engine (K20's are pretty tall). And, of course, the cost of the engine itself is still a pretty big obstacle to most people.
Lots of factors.
But it's not really any ONE thing that makes it hard to do - it's the combination of it all that makes it a daunting project. For example, even if there were a bolt-in mount kit available, you'd need a completely custom header, as well as custom axles. The shifter & cables would need attention, as would the clutch. Wiring up our gauges to work with the K-series ECU would be another challenge. Getting the engine wired up in general would be very labor-intensive - you'd most likely need to relocate the fuse box to the other side of the car. There's bound to be clearance issues with cruise control, a/c, alternator, battery, etc. The Prelude is pretty low profile, so there's a better than average chance you'd need a custom hood to clear the engine (K20's are pretty tall). And, of course, the cost of the engine itself is still a pretty big obstacle to most people.
Lots of factors.
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From: wet Dreaming, over 400whp, USA
Re: What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap? (Greyout)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Greyout »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I thought the transmission alone weighs like 20lbs more at least, and the total difference in weight was closer to 85 lbs</TD></TR></TABLE>the weight difference in tranny is 8lbs.
I suggest everyone reading this in the eg/ek civic forum. No it's not about k20s but it does show the difference in weights. It's even broken down
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=684550
Heres the difference in weight for the actual swap into the civic...
http://honda.hybrids.jp/forum/...07222
I suggest everyone reading this in the eg/ek civic forum. No it's not about k20s but it does show the difference in weights. It's even broken down
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=684550
Heres the difference in weight for the actual swap into the civic...
http://honda.hybrids.jp/forum/...07222
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From: Norwalk, CT
Re: What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap? (Matgallis)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Matgallis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I suggest everyone reading this in the eg/ek civic forum. No it's not about k20s but it does show the difference in weights. It's even broken down
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=684550</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't see how thats evidence of a 40 some-odd pound difference. From what he's got there, it's 25 pounds - weighing JUST the stripped/dry short block & tranny. Read farther on, and it turns out the B he weighed had been sleeved, which is of course going to add to it's weight some. And the H was sans balance shafts, which made it 8 pounds lighter than a stock block. The H head is going to be heavier, the manifolds are going to be heavier, the oil pan is going to be heavier, and the accessories are heavier as well. You'll usually want a bigger radiator for the H22 - that adds weight from sheer material as well as fluid capacity.
Factor all of that in, and I'm confident you'll see the 65-85 pound difference that we're accustomed to seeing. Sure do enough work on the H (remove balance shafts, get a c/f intake manifold, lightweight header, etc.) you can shave it's weight down to be closer to a B or K, but that's not really the point.
Not sure what to think about Jeff's civic, other than there has to be some variable not accounted for in his weigh-ins.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=684550</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't see how thats evidence of a 40 some-odd pound difference. From what he's got there, it's 25 pounds - weighing JUST the stripped/dry short block & tranny. Read farther on, and it turns out the B he weighed had been sleeved, which is of course going to add to it's weight some. And the H was sans balance shafts, which made it 8 pounds lighter than a stock block. The H head is going to be heavier, the manifolds are going to be heavier, the oil pan is going to be heavier, and the accessories are heavier as well. You'll usually want a bigger radiator for the H22 - that adds weight from sheer material as well as fluid capacity.
Factor all of that in, and I'm confident you'll see the 65-85 pound difference that we're accustomed to seeing. Sure do enough work on the H (remove balance shafts, get a c/f intake manifold, lightweight header, etc.) you can shave it's weight down to be closer to a B or K, but that's not really the point.
Not sure what to think about Jeff's civic, other than there has to be some variable not accounted for in his weigh-ins.
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From: Florida
Re: What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap? (SearchBeforeUPost!)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SearchBeforeUPost! »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
this is the second ignorant post I have read by you in the past 2 minutes.
HAS is working on a mount kit for accords, which will be virtually the same for preludes. </TD></TR></TABLE>
wtf are you talking about...where did i say anything about mounts?? maybe you need to read a little more carefully....and for the money you spend on a mount kit and the actual k series motor, an h22 built with that money would *** rape it anyways...but whatever you must know everything
this is the second ignorant post I have read by you in the past 2 minutes.
HAS is working on a mount kit for accords, which will be virtually the same for preludes. </TD></TR></TABLE>
wtf are you talking about...where did i say anything about mounts?? maybe you need to read a little more carefully....and for the money you spend on a mount kit and the actual k series motor, an h22 built with that money would *** rape it anyways...but whatever you must know everything
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From: MD, USA
Re: What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap? (PreludeRacer023)
i personally know a person who did the K20 swap in his eg... i dont know why some one said the K24 thats the rsx base 160 HP engine ... might as well do a K20 if you are going to bother with a K swap ...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PreludeRacer023 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wtf are you talking about...where did i say anything about mounts?? maybe you need to read a little more carefully....and for the money you spend on a mount kit and the actual k series motor, an h22 built with that money would *** rape it anyways...but whatever you must know everything </TD></TR></TABLE>
some times its not all about just building up a H22 ... people who got into the K swap early like my boy did nearly 8 or more months ago, did it for reasons other then going fast (built H22) ... the K series is the future of all swaps and with the **** thats been going on with (k20eg) and through all that people are continuing to go with the K swap ... if every body just wanted to go fast down the track we would get a mustang 5.0 with 3-4K in engine work and smoke the crap out of anyone in sight ...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PreludeRacer023 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wtf are you talking about...where did i say anything about mounts?? maybe you need to read a little more carefully....and for the money you spend on a mount kit and the actual k series motor, an h22 built with that money would *** rape it anyways...but whatever you must know everything
</TD></TR></TABLE>some times its not all about just building up a H22 ... people who got into the K swap early like my boy did nearly 8 or more months ago, did it for reasons other then going fast (built H22) ... the K series is the future of all swaps and with the **** thats been going on with (k20eg) and through all that people are continuing to go with the K swap ... if every body just wanted to go fast down the track we would get a mustang 5.0 with 3-4K in engine work and smoke the crap out of anyone in sight ...
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From: Florida
Re: What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap? (foshizllmynizl)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by foshizllmynizl »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i personally know a person who did the K20 swap in his eg... i dont know why some one said the K24 thats the rsx base 160 HP engine ... might as well do a K20 if you are going to bother with a K swap ...
some times its not all about just building up a H22 ... people who got into the K swap early like my boy did nearly 8 or more months ago, did it for reasons other then going fast (built H22) ... the K series is the future of all swaps and with the **** thats been going on with (k20eg) and through all that people are continuing to go with the K swap ... if every body just wanted to go fast down the track we would get a mustang 5.0 with 3-4K in engine work and smoke the crap out of anyone in sight ...</TD></TR></TABLE>
my point was he was saying **** about something i didnt even write....thats my point
some times its not all about just building up a H22 ... people who got into the K swap early like my boy did nearly 8 or more months ago, did it for reasons other then going fast (built H22) ... the K series is the future of all swaps and with the **** thats been going on with (k20eg) and through all that people are continuing to go with the K swap ... if every body just wanted to go fast down the track we would get a mustang 5.0 with 3-4K in engine work and smoke the crap out of anyone in sight ...</TD></TR></TABLE>
my point was he was saying **** about something i didnt even write....thats my point
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From: Thunderhill, CA
Re: What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap? (foshizllmynizl)
Well, anyways, to get the thread back on track...
Daemione, axles and reloacating the ecu was something that i hadnt factored in. But still i say that if people in little, and i do stress little, civics can do this swap, why not us lude owners? What makes it so much harder? I mean sure, the lude is low profile and the K might be taller, but civics are still damn small, and they can manage the swap seemingly fine. No incentive maybe?
Daemione, axles and reloacating the ecu was something that i hadnt factored in. But still i say that if people in little, and i do stress little, civics can do this swap, why not us lude owners? What makes it so much harder? I mean sure, the lude is low profile and the K might be taller, but civics are still damn small, and they can manage the swap seemingly fine. No incentive maybe?
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From: Sunny, FL
Re: What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap? (Hank the retard)
pretty much the only motor that would have the incentive to be in a Prelude is the K24/K20a head combo, because it yields enough torque for the Prelude. Many mount makers see this also,so IMO, they're a bit skeptical about how sales would be. That's my thinking on the not having any mount kits. And there are many more Civic and DC2 owners willing to to hybrid swaps also. Plus, the torque numbers on a K20a2(RSX-S) or K20a(ITR, CTR) is adequate for the civics and dc2s.
For the ECU, you will need either to have the immobilizer removed or have it reflashed by hondata or get Kpro. The K-series ECUs immobilizers are better than the previous engine generations...
Another difference is all the K-series trannies (MT) are cable. Unlike some b-series that are hydro.
But the K20a is about 20-30lbs lighter than the B18, therefore the weight difference between the K24/K20 (best for prelude) would be about the same. K24 is 2.4L from the longer stroke.
The header also might be a problem, but more and more companies are noticing the swap trend and are designing headers for swaps.
For the ECU, you will need either to have the immobilizer removed or have it reflashed by hondata or get Kpro. The K-series ECUs immobilizers are better than the previous engine generations...
Another difference is all the K-series trannies (MT) are cable. Unlike some b-series that are hydro.
But the K20a is about 20-30lbs lighter than the B18, therefore the weight difference between the K24/K20 (best for prelude) would be about the same. K24 is 2.4L from the longer stroke.
The header also might be a problem, but more and more companies are noticing the swap trend and are designing headers for swaps.
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From: Florida
Re: What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap? (Kal)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kal »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">pretty much the only motor that would have the incentive to be in a Prelude is the K24/K20a head combo, because it yields enough torque for the Prelude. Many mount makers see this also,so IMO, they're a bit skeptical about how sales would be. That's my thinking on the not having any mount kits. And there are many more Civic and DC2 owners willing to to hybrid swaps also. Plus, the torque numbers on a K20a2(RSX-S) or K20a(ITR, CTR) is adequate for the civics and dc2s.
For the ECU, you will need either to have the immobilizer removed or have it reflashed by hondata or get Kpro. The K-series ECUs immobilizers are better than the previous engine generations...
Another difference is all the K-series trannies (MT) are cable. Unlike some b-series that are hydro.
But the K20a is about 20-30lbs lighter than the B18, therefore the weight difference between the K24/K20 (best for prelude) would be about the same. K24 is 2.4L from the longer stroke.
The header also might be a problem, but more and more companies are noticing the swap trend and are designing headers for swaps.</TD></TR></TABLE>
where did the Bseries even come into this convo...he talking about swapping it into a lude so a b series comparision doesnt really make much sense does it...the h series are all cable trannys
For the ECU, you will need either to have the immobilizer removed or have it reflashed by hondata or get Kpro. The K-series ECUs immobilizers are better than the previous engine generations...
Another difference is all the K-series trannies (MT) are cable. Unlike some b-series that are hydro.
But the K20a is about 20-30lbs lighter than the B18, therefore the weight difference between the K24/K20 (best for prelude) would be about the same. K24 is 2.4L from the longer stroke.
The header also might be a problem, but more and more companies are noticing the swap trend and are designing headers for swaps.</TD></TR></TABLE>
where did the Bseries even come into this convo...he talking about swapping it into a lude so a b series comparision doesnt really make much sense does it...the h series are all cable trannys
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From: Dirty South, USA
Re: What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap? (foshizllmynizl)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by foshizllmynizl »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh i thought his mount comment was a reply to the post made by KAL ... </TD></TR></TABLE>
It was.
It was.
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From: Burning up in AZ
Re: What is the main limiting factor in a k-series swap? (Kal)
I remeber reading about HASport begining work on a mount kit for a k24/20 hybrid into a 4th gen prelude chassis....but it wasn't confirmed....I'll have to make a trip to phoenix and interrogate them about their plans