I have a bad, bad problem with brake fade everytime I'm on a roadcourse. It really bothers me as I just hate the feel of it, and it slows times like no other.
I have tried so far DOT 4 Fluid & Axxis MM Pads, and still had lots of fade (although less than with the stocks)

For next season, I have picked up the following:
Hawk HPS Front & Rear
Goodridge Lines
ATE Super BLue Fluid

I've started work on brake ducts, but I don't want to go through the huge plumbing hassle unless I have to.

Will these items be sufficient? What about with upgraded rotors, the slightly thicker, vaned Fastbrakes ones?

tia,
Ed

 

The Axxis Metalmaster pads are the likely culprit. They are a street-only pad. They do not stand up to track driving. There are lots of good pads on the market, some for street-track, some for track only (as we've seen in other threads). Based on my experience, the Axxis Metalmaster pads are probably worse than all of them.

Another possible culprit is "green pad syndrome". When pads are used on a track for the first time (even if they've been driven fairly hard on the street), they reach temperatures they've never reached before. It's very common for ANY pad to start fading the first time (first run session) it's used on the track. Typically, they fade, you bring the car into the pits and it sits for 30+ minutes and cools off. Your second session later the same day, they might still fade but not as much. By the time your third session of the day rolls around, they have been sufficiently heat treated that they don't fade at all.

Yes.



[Modified by nsxtcjr, 7:42 AM 11/30/2001]

 

I know the Axxis suck, but they were cheap and available when I was in a bind. My fault for being lazy and not changing sooner.

Thanks Ken, I think I'll try what I've got now at teh expo and see how it goes.

 

Yeah, it's likely the pads. I had a set of those on one of my GTI's once. Never again. Had the same fade problems whenever I pushed them. I read the articles about "green fade" thinking mine would get better and they never did. I actually liked the OEM pads better if that's any indication of how much I disliked them.

 

HPS on a road course is a joke..

They just perform a little better than Stock.

I tried HP+, which is suppose be for autoX/light track racing...

I ran 3 laps and it faded. I think I need to use Hawk Blue, or R4

 

So is HPS a street pad? To be honest I didn't pay that much attention because they were part of the buy on SS lines & fluid awhile back. I figured they would do alright on the track. Guess we'll see.

 

I just got some Carbotech Panther Plus for the track this weekend so stay tuned for impressions.

yoshi - who will be at the track 24hrs from now

 

Yes please do leave your impressions!

sackdz - who needs to put his car away before the crazy Dragon (Nebraska) snowstorm hit's Michigan.

 

Axxis Metal Master..... yuck!
I used them on Blackhawk and Road America before. Blackhawk is infamous of hard braking and those MM pads just sucked so bad. In RA they were ok mainly because there are plenty of room between turns for the brakes to cool down.

Just use them for the street.

 

GET SOME PADS!!! HPS and MM won't do JACK on the track! Do yourself a favor, change the brake fluid to ATE and use the Carbotech Panther + pads and say good by to your problem..

 

Where's everyone getting their Panther's from?

 

Carbotech Engineering http://www.carbotecheng.com
Toll-Free: 877-899-5024

We sell direct...keeps the prices very reasonable.

Andie

 

HPS will fade at the track.

Porterfield R4 (only thing better is a parachute)

 

for those of you who do occasional road racing on track pads, do you swap out the pads and rotors before the event? or just swap pads not rotors...id like to know your procedures.


[Modified by Type Goch, 3:19 PM 12/6/2001]

 

I swap my pads and rotors. I tried using Porterfield R4S, Hawk HP+ and stock pads. They all faded after a few laps. The Hawk blues on the other hand have never faded on me. I use Ford HD fluid and I'm generally not very easy on brakes.

I do it at the track. Doing the rotors is only two more bolts to do than just doing pads as long as you don't use the retainer screws on the rotor. Doing the pads is only one more bolt than changing wheels. Three bolts per side is definitely worth it. Especially since race pads like to be bedded to their own rotor.

After removing I label which pad came from which side of which caliper and which side each rotor came from. I use one of those silver markers, which shows up a lot better than you'd think, especially after the pads turn to their ash colour.

It takes a bit more time, but it does for brakes what R compounds do for tires. After you use it once you'll never go back.

edit: if I'm going to the track for the whole weekend I often change pads/rotors before leaving my house. I'm not braking enough on the highway on the way to the track to worry about chewing rotors too much.


[Modified by B18C5, 5:38 PM 12/6/2001]

 

Hey guys, sorry for the newbie question but what's brake fade?

 

brake fade, when youre out on the track for a while, your brakes start getting really hot and it gets to a point when your brakes just dont perform as well or they just dont want to brake anymore. I think some of the other guys can come up with a better response..

 

Brakew fade is just that- the performance of your brakes fade. It is caused by intense heat. Sometimes the heat will boil the brake fluid, causing less pressure in the system, and you need to press harder on the brakes. Also it can be caused by the material on the pad overheating and no longer in it's effective temperature range.

If you race your car, and are hard on the brakes, you will know what I'm talking about. Especially if you brakes are all stock.

Preventative measures include:
-Higher temp brake fluid
-Better pads
-More ventillation to discs
-Slotted/Crossdrilled rotors (not recommended)
-Stainless Steel Lines (won't prevent fade, but increase pedal feel)

 

Thanks for the awesome answer, thanks man!