Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's
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From: Las Vegas, NV
Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's
Well, here goes. 1999 Integra GS. I've been riding around with this latest setup for over a month now and I don't like it ---> used Koni Sports (yellows), H&R race springs, and other suspension mods which are irrelevent to this post. I used to have Dropzone shocks paired with the H&R races, and I was expecting something revolutionary when I installed the Koni's.
Let me begin by saying that I drive purely on the street. I put on average in between 100-150 miles on my car per day. I used to have problems with my front upper control arms hitting the frame when I had the Dropzones paired with the H&R races. I quickly realized I had no front bumpstops installed, and thats when I began doing all of my own suspension work. I installed the oem bumpstops and it cured the control arm problem ,well, almost, they still hit on enormous bumps which which were few and far between (once a month or so I'd run into such a bump).
Well, I thought I needed shocks with stiffer valving, especially stiffer compression valving, so I bought a set of used Bilstein Sports and a set of used Koni Yellows within a week of each other (I didn't intend on two different sets of shocks, it just ended up that way). I installed the Koni's, hoping the adjustable perches would let me raise my car a little, and the Bilsteins are still under my bed. The car still feels like a heavy tank to me, only over bumps though. Here's the thing, the rebound adjustment is great, the car stays flat and is responsive and its attitude can be changed by changing the front to rear rebound bias, but the car feels like sh*t over bumps, and the damping just doesn't feel right.
I've sat in cars that have excellent damping. My cousin has a BMW 330 with and M3 suspension package, the damping feel of the car is unreal. My other cousin just got a 2004 Corvette Z06, the damping feel is nearly identical to that of the BMW, only it is even tighter. They can go over almost any type of road surface, swell, pothole, rivet, and the car nimbly hops over these road irregularities and the chassis remains in control. With my car, I can barely keep my hands on the wheel, the car feels mushy, bouncy, and imprecise, and not stiff and firm, like a precision automobile. When I go over swells on the freeway, the car feels as though it is sinking, or staying in compression for too long, and it makes me feel like my intestines are going to come out of my a**. The Dropzones were the same. I have tried a million settings with the ****, and I still can't get the chassis control I desire, although I can get the handling characteristics I desire. Also, with the car parked and my door open, I can stand on the door sill and hop to test the suspension, and it feels "mushy" and not rigid.
I've done more research on suspension then anyone on HT would believe. I've read tens of dozens of articles on shocks, studied shock dyno graphs, read about the differences between dual chamber and monotube shocks, I've read about compression and rebound and how they affect the cars dynamics and what guidelines to follow when setting them up.
I'm going to get to the point now. Two days ago I was thinking of installing the Bilstein Sports, because in my mind I figured since my ride height is so low, and my bumpstops are probably somewhat compressed already, I don't have much suspension travel or much room for suspension travel either, I thought the monotube Bilsteins might work better than my Koni's because I truly felt that the Koni's were just out of their range of effectiveness to damp the car properly, and monotube is more sensitive to smaller movements in shock travel. For the past few days I've been giving it some more thought, and as of this moment I'm thinking I should get Ground-Controls with custom rates and at least 8" springs, install them with the OTS Konis (SP1) and raise the car, focusing solely on the ride height to make sure I have more than enough suspension travel. I figure this way, the Koni's will work effectively, the chassis won't be disrupted because the suspension will actually absorb the bumps rather than my chassis, and I can run even higher springrates and the car will most probably feel more comfortable with the higher rates at a functional ride height rather than with softer rates sitting on bumpstops.
My spring rates right now are 450 lb/in front, 350 lb/in rear, I have Skunk2 front upper a-arms, Suspension Techniques 19mm rear sway (endlinks mount to shock bolts), and no front swaybar. I like the handling characteristics with this setup and I think I may go with 550 lb/in front and 450 lb/in rear when I get the GC's, as this will keep the front to rear ration the same. As of right now the car is purely street driven. I don't street race at all, I'm just trying to build a nimble daily driver. I may do some HPDE in the future, although I don't plan on competing, just time trials for my own sake. How does my logic sound as far as the GC's and ride height for better suspension function?
Edited for readability.
Modified by opeth13 at 11:41 AM 8/10/2004
Let me begin by saying that I drive purely on the street. I put on average in between 100-150 miles on my car per day. I used to have problems with my front upper control arms hitting the frame when I had the Dropzones paired with the H&R races. I quickly realized I had no front bumpstops installed, and thats when I began doing all of my own suspension work. I installed the oem bumpstops and it cured the control arm problem ,well, almost, they still hit on enormous bumps which which were few and far between (once a month or so I'd run into such a bump).
Well, I thought I needed shocks with stiffer valving, especially stiffer compression valving, so I bought a set of used Bilstein Sports and a set of used Koni Yellows within a week of each other (I didn't intend on two different sets of shocks, it just ended up that way). I installed the Koni's, hoping the adjustable perches would let me raise my car a little, and the Bilsteins are still under my bed. The car still feels like a heavy tank to me, only over bumps though. Here's the thing, the rebound adjustment is great, the car stays flat and is responsive and its attitude can be changed by changing the front to rear rebound bias, but the car feels like sh*t over bumps, and the damping just doesn't feel right.
I've sat in cars that have excellent damping. My cousin has a BMW 330 with and M3 suspension package, the damping feel of the car is unreal. My other cousin just got a 2004 Corvette Z06, the damping feel is nearly identical to that of the BMW, only it is even tighter. They can go over almost any type of road surface, swell, pothole, rivet, and the car nimbly hops over these road irregularities and the chassis remains in control. With my car, I can barely keep my hands on the wheel, the car feels mushy, bouncy, and imprecise, and not stiff and firm, like a precision automobile. When I go over swells on the freeway, the car feels as though it is sinking, or staying in compression for too long, and it makes me feel like my intestines are going to come out of my a**. The Dropzones were the same. I have tried a million settings with the ****, and I still can't get the chassis control I desire, although I can get the handling characteristics I desire. Also, with the car parked and my door open, I can stand on the door sill and hop to test the suspension, and it feels "mushy" and not rigid.
I've done more research on suspension then anyone on HT would believe. I've read tens of dozens of articles on shocks, studied shock dyno graphs, read about the differences between dual chamber and monotube shocks, I've read about compression and rebound and how they affect the cars dynamics and what guidelines to follow when setting them up.
I'm going to get to the point now. Two days ago I was thinking of installing the Bilstein Sports, because in my mind I figured since my ride height is so low, and my bumpstops are probably somewhat compressed already, I don't have much suspension travel or much room for suspension travel either, I thought the monotube Bilsteins might work better than my Koni's because I truly felt that the Koni's were just out of their range of effectiveness to damp the car properly, and monotube is more sensitive to smaller movements in shock travel. For the past few days I've been giving it some more thought, and as of this moment I'm thinking I should get Ground-Controls with custom rates and at least 8" springs, install them with the OTS Konis (SP1) and raise the car, focusing solely on the ride height to make sure I have more than enough suspension travel. I figure this way, the Koni's will work effectively, the chassis won't be disrupted because the suspension will actually absorb the bumps rather than my chassis, and I can run even higher springrates and the car will most probably feel more comfortable with the higher rates at a functional ride height rather than with softer rates sitting on bumpstops.
My spring rates right now are 450 lb/in front, 350 lb/in rear, I have Skunk2 front upper a-arms, Suspension Techniques 19mm rear sway (endlinks mount to shock bolts), and no front swaybar. I like the handling characteristics with this setup and I think I may go with 550 lb/in front and 450 lb/in rear when I get the GC's, as this will keep the front to rear ration the same. As of right now the car is purely street driven. I don't street race at all, I'm just trying to build a nimble daily driver. I may do some HPDE in the future, although I don't plan on competing, just time trials for my own sake. How does my logic sound as far as the GC's and ride height for better suspension function?
Edited for readability.
Modified by opeth13 at 11:41 AM 8/10/2004
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From: Kings Mt., NC
Re: Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's (opeth13)
1) They were used, not new. They may have been busted before you ever installed them.
2) How much lower are you? Sounds like you are running out of suspension travel (too low). Suspension travel: Some is good, more is better.
3) What's your alignment?
2) How much lower are you? Sounds like you are running out of suspension travel (too low). Suspension travel: Some is good, more is better.
3) What's your alignment?
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From: Plotting My Revenge
Re: Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's (MaddMatt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1) They were used, not new. They may have been busted before you ever installed them.
2) How much lower are you? Sounds like you are running out of suspension travel (too low). Suspension travel: Some is good, more is better.
3) What's your alignment?</TD></TR></TABLE>
4) Dont put a race suspension on a street car and then bitch about it.
2) How much lower are you? Sounds like you are running out of suspension travel (too low). Suspension travel: Some is good, more is better.
3) What's your alignment?</TD></TR></TABLE>
4) Dont put a race suspension on a street car and then bitch about it.
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Re: Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's (opeth13)
If your front control arms are hitting the frame you have problems a shock won't cure. I'd bet the ride sucks in part to such a limited suspension travel, if you have any at all. If you have full OEM bump stops you are probably in part sitting on them.
The BMW and corvette ride better because they are designed to ride at a specific height. Honda suspensions start to do really funny things if you drop them as low as you car may be (based on the control arms hitting, its just a guess). Raise the car, have the koni's tested to make sure they aren't blown. Based on how low you may be riding, the konis may be damaged if they were bottomed out.
Konis will not fix other suspension problems.
I have used koni and ground control and my car rides better than stock.
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From: Plotting My Revenge
Re: Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's (Catch 22)
The car is too low, the shocks are crushing the bump stops and the upper A arms are hitting the top of the well.
No damper in the world will help you with that.
Raise the car.
No damper in the world will help you with that.
Raise the car.
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From: I started it
Re: Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's (opeth13)
1. The car is too low. Like the others said.
2. Use the ENTER key. The enter key is useful for putting line breaks in your posts and makes them easier to read. Example. Start typing. Finish a point. Then press <enter> <enter>
See? <enter> <enter>
Much more readable that way.
2. Use the ENTER key. The enter key is useful for putting line breaks in your posts and makes them easier to read. Example. Start typing. Finish a point. Then press <enter> <enter>
See? <enter> <enter>
Much more readable that way.
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From: socal
Re: Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's (Catch 22)
i'm pretty sure the h&r's are meant to be used w/ uncut stock bumpstops.
also, the h&r's are progressive to give a more cushy ride on the street, yet handle well...or something like that. a linear, higher rate spring will probably give you the firm ride you are looking for, though you may not like it.
the koni's have digressive valving which gives a better ride and handling. the bilsteins will most likely give you the 'firm' ride.
also, the h&r's are progressive to give a more cushy ride on the street, yet handle well...or something like that. a linear, higher rate spring will probably give you the firm ride you are looking for, though you may not like it.
the koni's have digressive valving which gives a better ride and handling. the bilsteins will most likely give you the 'firm' ride.
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From: cali
Re: Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's (tom_l)
besides being too low, did you ever think that maybe your just expecting too much out of ONE suspenstion part.
there is something else RIGhT there with the damper THE SPRING. id suggest getting rid of those fcker ASAP, GC has a great setup for the koni's and has a WIDE varity of spring rates to mess with.
also swaybars can be a vary effective tool to use, for you suspension. try useing it.
and lastly comparing a FR to a FF handle Charcteristics isn't really fair.
yes i i have seen a FF car run circle around a FR and vis versa im not saying one is better than the other. you just shouldn't try and compare FF to FR. two different ballgames
i drive a corvette and a civic hatch the corvette is stock suspension wise, but it does fine. the civic has modified suspension and it does great. but both cars drive COMPLETLY differently.
im not sure which would turn a faster lap, agian its inconsiqental, they are just two different beast.
there is something else RIGhT there with the damper THE SPRING. id suggest getting rid of those fcker ASAP, GC has a great setup for the koni's and has a WIDE varity of spring rates to mess with.
also swaybars can be a vary effective tool to use, for you suspension. try useing it.
and lastly comparing a FR to a FF handle Charcteristics isn't really fair.
yes i i have seen a FF car run circle around a FR and vis versa im not saying one is better than the other. you just shouldn't try and compare FF to FR. two different ballgames
i drive a corvette and a civic hatch the corvette is stock suspension wise, but it does fine. the civic has modified suspension and it does great. but both cars drive COMPLETLY differently.
im not sure which would turn a faster lap, agian its inconsiqental, they are just two different beast.
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From: Las Vegas, NV
Re: Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's (MattG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MattG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If your front control arms are hitting the frame you have problems a shock won't cure. I'd bet the ride sucks in part to such a limited suspension travel, if you have any at all. If you have full OEM bump stops you are probably in part sitting on them.
The BMW and corvette ride better because they are designed to ride at a specific height. Honda suspensions start to do really funny things if you drop them as low as you car may be (based on the control arms hitting, its just a guess). Raise the car, have the koni's tested to make sure they aren't blown. Based on how low you may be riding, the konis may be damaged if they were bottomed out.
Konis will not fix other suspension problems.
I have used koni and ground control and my car rides better than stock. </TD></TR></TABLE>
My control arms don't hit the shock tower anymore since installing the full length bumpstops. The bumpstops shouldn't be cut with the race springs for the integra according to the leaflet that comes with the springs and also according to an H&R service rep.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
4) Dont put a race suspension on a street car and then bitch about it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You know, I generally enjoy reading most of your posts, but if you thought about it, you'd soon realize H&R race springs aren't a race part, they are just for show, I found this out the hard way. 450lb/in and 350 lb/in is hardly considered a race part. I found your comment to be harsh in a purposefully negative way. We are all here to learn. I am not a suspension or auto newb, and I'm not saying that you have done this already, but don't judge my automotive knowledge based on my post count and the few paragraphs I've typed in this one thread.
And to the guy that feels I should hit the enter key, you have a point.
happy? I've even gone as far as editing my entire original post with spaces.
The H&R race springs are definitely linear, I know this for a fact, they have dead coils just to set the height. I pretty much knew the answer to my original question(s), I just needed some assurance. I will be raising the ride height with some ground controls soon.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">5) I have $20 that says that Corvette and BMW you referenced have wayyyyyy more free travel than you have.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you're right, they do.
Oh yeah, and the drop with the H&R race springs is ridiculous, my 15" stock mesh's tires are tucked in the front. When I originally bought the springs, I was in the learning process, and I bought the H&R's purely because of the spring rate. I wasn't ready yet to mess with ride height, and I figured H&R is a reputable company and they would have done their homework. The H&R race springs (and Neuspeed race springs which are nearly identical) are the stiffest non-coilover springs you can get for a 94-01 Integra.
Modified by opeth13 at 11:50 AM 8/10/2004
Modified by opeth13 at 11:51 AM 8/10/2004
If your front control arms are hitting the frame you have problems a shock won't cure. I'd bet the ride sucks in part to such a limited suspension travel, if you have any at all. If you have full OEM bump stops you are probably in part sitting on them.
The BMW and corvette ride better because they are designed to ride at a specific height. Honda suspensions start to do really funny things if you drop them as low as you car may be (based on the control arms hitting, its just a guess). Raise the car, have the koni's tested to make sure they aren't blown. Based on how low you may be riding, the konis may be damaged if they were bottomed out.
Konis will not fix other suspension problems.
I have used koni and ground control and my car rides better than stock. </TD></TR></TABLE>
My control arms don't hit the shock tower anymore since installing the full length bumpstops. The bumpstops shouldn't be cut with the race springs for the integra according to the leaflet that comes with the springs and also according to an H&R service rep.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
4) Dont put a race suspension on a street car and then bitch about it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You know, I generally enjoy reading most of your posts, but if you thought about it, you'd soon realize H&R race springs aren't a race part, they are just for show, I found this out the hard way. 450lb/in and 350 lb/in is hardly considered a race part. I found your comment to be harsh in a purposefully negative way. We are all here to learn. I am not a suspension or auto newb, and I'm not saying that you have done this already, but don't judge my automotive knowledge based on my post count and the few paragraphs I've typed in this one thread.
And to the guy that feels I should hit the enter key, you have a point.
happy? I've even gone as far as editing my entire original post with spaces.
The H&R race springs are definitely linear, I know this for a fact, they have dead coils just to set the height. I pretty much knew the answer to my original question(s), I just needed some assurance. I will be raising the ride height with some ground controls soon.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">5) I have $20 that says that Corvette and BMW you referenced have wayyyyyy more free travel than you have.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you're right, they do.
Oh yeah, and the drop with the H&R race springs is ridiculous, my 15" stock mesh's tires are tucked in the front. When I originally bought the springs, I was in the learning process, and I bought the H&R's purely because of the spring rate. I wasn't ready yet to mess with ride height, and I figured H&R is a reputable company and they would have done their homework. The H&R race springs (and Neuspeed race springs which are nearly identical) are the stiffest non-coilover springs you can get for a 94-01 Integra.
Modified by opeth13 at 11:50 AM 8/10/2004
Modified by opeth13 at 11:51 AM 8/10/2004
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's (opeth13)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opeth13 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> 450lb/in and 350 lb/in is hardly considered a race part</TD></TR></TABLE>
But its probably twice as stiff as the springs on the BMW you mentioned.
But its probably twice as stiff as the springs on the BMW you mentioned.
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Re: Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's (opeth13)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opeth13 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
My control arms don't hit the shock tower anymore since installing the full length bumpstops. The bumpstops shouldn't be cut with the race springs for the integra according to the leaflet that comes with the springs and also according to an H&R service rep.</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you have no supension travel you could put a set of remote resivour motons on your car and the ride would still suck since you are hitting the bumpstops, you need more suspenstion travel there are several ways to accomplsih this.
1. Raise the Car
2. Buy a set of upper shock tower mounts from ground conrol that raise the mounting point of the shock
3. Build a set of upper shock tower mounts that raise the mounting point of the shock
4. Call CRX Lee at koni, send him your shocks and have them shortened.
Also someone suggested sway bars to you but you have other problems that sway bars are not going to cure.
My control arms don't hit the shock tower anymore since installing the full length bumpstops. The bumpstops shouldn't be cut with the race springs for the integra according to the leaflet that comes with the springs and also according to an H&R service rep.</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you have no supension travel you could put a set of remote resivour motons on your car and the ride would still suck since you are hitting the bumpstops, you need more suspenstion travel there are several ways to accomplsih this.
1. Raise the Car
2. Buy a set of upper shock tower mounts from ground conrol that raise the mounting point of the shock
3. Build a set of upper shock tower mounts that raise the mounting point of the shock
4. Call CRX Lee at koni, send him your shocks and have them shortened.
Also someone suggested sway bars to you but you have other problems that sway bars are not going to cure.
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From: Austin, Tx, USA
Re: Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's (opeth13)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opeth13 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
My control arms don't hit the shock tower anymore since installing the full length bumpstops. The bumpstops shouldn't be cut with the race springs for the integra according to the leaflet that comes with the springs and also according to an H&R service rep.</TD></TR></TABLE>
- original condition: suspension travel upper bound is limited by the suspension arm hitting the fender
*replaces bumpstops*
- new condition: suspension travel upper bound is no longer limited by the fender
conclusion: unless you modified your fenders in the process of replacing the bumpstops, maybe you are hitting the bumpstops!?
My control arms don't hit the shock tower anymore since installing the full length bumpstops. The bumpstops shouldn't be cut with the race springs for the integra according to the leaflet that comes with the springs and also according to an H&R service rep.</TD></TR></TABLE>
- original condition: suspension travel upper bound is limited by the suspension arm hitting the fender
*replaces bumpstops*
- new condition: suspension travel upper bound is no longer limited by the fender
conclusion: unless you modified your fenders in the process of replacing the bumpstops, maybe you are hitting the bumpstops!?
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From: Montreal, QC, Canada
Re: Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's (opeth13)
By the sound of it, the best thing for you is maybe to remove the H&R race, slap the stock springs back on with the Konis (test them to make sure they are not blown) and the car will behave much closer to what you expect on the street. Or maybe just get some H&R OE or Sport springs with that. Maybe even a decent 20-22mm rear swaybar.
Although H&R Race have mild rates compared to a full race setup, they could be considered a relatively agressive Auto-x setup and are like 300-400 percent stiffer than stock. Definetely not a daily driver setup.
Anyway, you'd be suprised how much of an improvement Konis make even with just stock springs, especially on a daily driver. Try it...
Although H&R Race have mild rates compared to a full race setup, they could be considered a relatively agressive Auto-x setup and are like 300-400 percent stiffer than stock. Definetely not a daily driver setup.
Anyway, you'd be suprised how much of an improvement Konis make even with just stock springs, especially on a daily driver. Try it...
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From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's (opeth13)
It sounds to me like you need a more stock setup. Have you considered using ITR springs/shocks/swaybars? The whole setup can be purchased for cheap and bolts right up to your car.
While 450/350 springs are easily streetable I would not choose these rates for a street only car.
While 450/350 springs are easily streetable I would not choose these rates for a street only car.
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From: SoCal, Ca, USA
Re: Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's (opeth13)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opeth13 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
My control arms don't hit the shock tower anymore since installing the full length bumpstops. The bumpstops shouldn't be cut with the race springs for the integra according to the leaflet that comes with the springs and also according to an H&R service rep.
[/i]</TD></TR></TABLE>
If installing full length bumpstops cured the control arms from hitting then you are definitely hitting the BUMPSTOPS. Bumpstops are made to protect the struts and suspension from bottoming out on massive potholes and those things that occur less than 1% of the time. The suspension should not be designed to ride on them all the time.
My control arms don't hit the shock tower anymore since installing the full length bumpstops. The bumpstops shouldn't be cut with the race springs for the integra according to the leaflet that comes with the springs and also according to an H&R service rep.
[/i]</TD></TR></TABLE>
If installing full length bumpstops cured the control arms from hitting then you are definitely hitting the BUMPSTOPS. Bumpstops are made to protect the struts and suspension from bottoming out on massive potholes and those things that occur less than 1% of the time. The suspension should not be designed to ride on them all the time.
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From: Kings Mt., NC
Re: Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's (Zeppelin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">450lb/in and 350 lb/in is hardly considered a race part. </TD></TR></TABLE>
But hardly what I'd consider a street part. That's pretty stiff stuff there.
But hardly what I'd consider a street part. That's pretty stiff stuff there.
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From: Las Vegas, NV
Re: Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's (Solracer)
Gaining more suspension travel by getting extended upper mounts will just make the control arms hit again. My rear bar is a significant upgrade over the stock bar, even at 19 mm, as it uses a different mounting location that the stock bar. It is stiffer than a 19 mm bar that would mount to the stock location. The only reason I want stiffer spring rates is because I don't want to run a front bar. The first thing I noticed when I removed the front bar was how much more enjoyable the car was to drive around town and in general.
I'm still debating whether to go stiffer or not. First I'll try the rates I mentioned at an increased ride height, if there is less chassis disruption than I have now, then it is more than bearable on the street, IMO. If its too much spring, I'll just go lower, probably 350 all around with a small front bar. Thanks for the replies. One other thing. The spring rate on the BMW may be smaller in numbers, but I wonder what the wheel rate is since it has a different suspension design.
What confuses me is all the great reviews peoeple have given the H&R race and Koin sport combo, a lot of users on this board run that setup, and a lot of users on team-integra.net run the setup also. I hate this setup, its been nothing but problems.
Modified by opeth13 at 6:59 PM 8/10/2004
I'm still debating whether to go stiffer or not. First I'll try the rates I mentioned at an increased ride height, if there is less chassis disruption than I have now, then it is more than bearable on the street, IMO. If its too much spring, I'll just go lower, probably 350 all around with a small front bar. Thanks for the replies. One other thing. The spring rate on the BMW may be smaller in numbers, but I wonder what the wheel rate is since it has a different suspension design.
What confuses me is all the great reviews peoeple have given the H&R race and Koin sport combo, a lot of users on this board run that setup, and a lot of users on team-integra.net run the setup also. I hate this setup, its been nothing but problems.
Modified by opeth13 at 6:59 PM 8/10/2004
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Re: Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's (opeth13)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opeth13 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What confuses me is all the great reviews peoeple have given the H&R race and Koin sport combo, a lot of users on this board run that setup, and a lot of users on team-integra.net run the setup also. I hate this setup, its been nothing but problems.
Modified by opeth13 at 6:59 PM 8/10/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>
<---- That's what's on my Civic. And it's a great budget AutoX setup (keep in mind the Civic weighs a good 700lbs less, on essentially the same spring rates). Now, having said that, i've lasted about a total of 3 months of daily driving it before I got fedup and bought another car (2003 Lancer, auto to boot) for daily driving. And my street tires were marshmellowy no-name brand 175-70-13s. So I know exactly where you're coming from. BTW, my springs are mounted on the upper perch groove in the front and the middle in the back. An easy 2 finger gap front/rear between tire and fender (205-60-13s on 13x8"). No bottoming or any other problems you described.
A stock ITR setup is a great idea, BTW...
What confuses me is all the great reviews peoeple have given the H&R race and Koin sport combo, a lot of users on this board run that setup, and a lot of users on team-integra.net run the setup also. I hate this setup, its been nothing but problems.
Modified by opeth13 at 6:59 PM 8/10/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>
<---- That's what's on my Civic. And it's a great budget AutoX setup (keep in mind the Civic weighs a good 700lbs less, on essentially the same spring rates). Now, having said that, i've lasted about a total of 3 months of daily driving it before I got fedup and bought another car (2003 Lancer, auto to boot) for daily driving. And my street tires were marshmellowy no-name brand 175-70-13s. So I know exactly where you're coming from. BTW, my springs are mounted on the upper perch groove in the front and the middle in the back. An easy 2 finger gap front/rear between tire and fender (205-60-13s on 13x8"). No bottoming or any other problems you described.
A stock ITR setup is a great idea, BTW...
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Re: Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's (jsi)
Listen, the springs are very stiff for the street and the car is too low. No damper in the world is going to solve this problem. If you read your own post, you'll see that you are saying that the bumpstops are keeping the upper arms from crashing into the chassis. Now just sit back for a moment and think about what that means... Get it???
As far as my race parts comment is concerned, its dead on IMO.
Again, read your own post. You referred to them as RACE springs and LINEAR springs. Hate to break it to you, but those are RACE parts. Not really intended for the street. Yes, you can drive them on the street, but it will be harsh. Take the good with the bad.
The handling issue is that as soon as you turn the wheel you are out of suspension travel. Plain and simple.
If you raise the car and it still doesn't handle well, investigate the possibility that your USED Konis are busted.
As far as my race parts comment is concerned, its dead on IMO.
Again, read your own post. You referred to them as RACE springs and LINEAR springs. Hate to break it to you, but those are RACE parts. Not really intended for the street. Yes, you can drive them on the street, but it will be harsh. Take the good with the bad.
The handling issue is that as soon as you turn the wheel you are out of suspension travel. Plain and simple.
If you raise the car and it still doesn't handle well, investigate the possibility that your USED Konis are busted.
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Re: Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's (Catch 22)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you raise the car and it still doesn't handle well, investigate the possibility that your USED Konis are busted.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Heck he could have already busted the koni's he got if the car is low enough for the control arms to bottom out.
Heck he could have already busted the koni's he got if the car is low enough for the control arms to bottom out.
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Re: Unsatisfied with Koni's and H&R's (jsi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jsi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">By the sound of it, the best thing for you is maybe to remove the H&R race, slap the stock springs back on with the Konis (test them to make sure they are not blown)</TD></TR></TABLE>
Agreed. The first thing I would do is stick the stock springs back on. Instant travel, and you can tell more what the shock does for you. A baseline, sort of. Then if you want stiffer springs, go the GC route.
Agreed. The first thing I would do is stick the stock springs back on. Instant travel, and you can tell more what the shock does for you. A baseline, sort of. Then if you want stiffer springs, go the GC route.
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