A Pocket Logger Users Perspective
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1
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From: Rhinebeck, NY, USA
A Pocket Logger Users Perspective
A bunch of us on the PocketLogger list have been reading the posts concerning the pocket logger. I felt compelled to add my .02.
So far I've seen 3 posts on the subject, one is locked, one was deleted, and the other has had only 3 people (I think) on it. This is probably due to the fact that you guys are way more active than I'm used to seeing on the DSM boards. This causes any post to be several pages back in less than a day! Wow you guys (and gals) sure love to talk about anything Honda!
Let me start by saying that I'm not a "Honda Hater", I just happen to think that DSM's are a much better bang for my buck. I would hope everyone in a forum called Honda <U>Tech</U> would see that a Turbocharger and AWD make a pretty fun combo on the streets. I also don't have a financial interest in Digital Tuning (the company that makes Pocket Logger), I'm just a very happy customer.
Anyway, back to the Pocket Logger thing, it seems that a few of the poster's in the locked thread (do a search for PocketLogger) actually appreciate the value of a data logger in extracting the most power from you car. Other posters don't think it's worth their money, or that it's just a fancy gizmo. Another reason why a poster gave as it not being worth the money is that he believed that since you can't change any of the ECU's operating parameters that it wasn't a useful tuning device.
That being said, I'd like to tell you that the pocket logger was the best money I ever invested in a vehicle. It paid its purchase price back within a day of my buying it. How you ask? Early model DSM's like mine are known to have a problem with the ECU which involves a couple of capictors in the power supply section of the PCB. By plugging in the Pocket Logger with the car at idle I could see that the battery voltage as read by the ECU was fluctuating over 1/2 a volt with the engine not running! Out with the ECU and replaced the 3 caps for $1.01. If I had driven around much longer the bad Caps in the ECU would have corroded even more of the components on the board, causing me to have to buy an $1100 ECU! Even remanned ECU's cost almost $500, but I don't much like remanufactured electronics.
Since then I've learned tons of useful info on the inner working of my ECU. Things like:
1. Why Does the ECU even care about battery voltage (trust me it's important!)
2. What triggers the ECU to go from closed loop control to open loop control
3. The real reason why using bigger injectors and an AFC increase power (it doesn't really have a lot to do with delivering more fuel)
4. How do I know if my O2 sensor is bad?
5. etc..
Most importantly I now have a baseline of all my major engine parameters. Any mods I do in the future can now be quantified. I will know exactly whether the changes I make have a positive or negative impact on acceleration
. To the people who say it's not worth the $175 (or around $275 if you buy a used Palm) and that you should just save your money and buy a stand alone EMS, I say how can you program the EMS if you don't have a base of knowledge about how your engine performed before you installed the EMS? For example, how would you know how much ignition advance is safe for you engine at a certain airflow? You could put in the wrong parameters in the EMS and blow your precious ITR engine in a heart beat.
I have tried not to start a flame war with this thread, I just want to see if I could bring a few intelligent people into the fold of those who want (and can appreciate) an affordable data logger that is supported by a good community of enthusiasts and an even better company. Mike (the owner of digital tuning) has tried (and succeded in my opinion) to not only offer an excellent product for sale, but to put together an effective community where (good) help is always available for your tuning questions. IMO the mailing list and Yahoo group that all Pocket Logger owners are members of is even more valuable than the software is.
Tim
'91 Talon TSi (AWD), 16G,3" turbo back, RC550's, Buscher UICP, Greddy EGT and Boost gauges, CFDF clutch, Apexi SAFC (old style), HKS throttle body elbow, etc, etc, etc...
'90 240SX - Bone Stock
'00 ZX-12
'84 RZ-350
'91 DR350S (WB 441cc big bore, cam, 36mm FS carb, Supertrapp IDS, etc, etc, etc)
'97 KDX 220 (Bone stock, it doesn't need anything)
Other toys soon!
So far I've seen 3 posts on the subject, one is locked, one was deleted, and the other has had only 3 people (I think) on it. This is probably due to the fact that you guys are way more active than I'm used to seeing on the DSM boards. This causes any post to be several pages back in less than a day! Wow you guys (and gals) sure love to talk about anything Honda!
Let me start by saying that I'm not a "Honda Hater", I just happen to think that DSM's are a much better bang for my buck. I would hope everyone in a forum called Honda <U>Tech</U> would see that a Turbocharger and AWD make a pretty fun combo on the streets. I also don't have a financial interest in Digital Tuning (the company that makes Pocket Logger), I'm just a very happy customer.
Anyway, back to the Pocket Logger thing, it seems that a few of the poster's in the locked thread (do a search for PocketLogger) actually appreciate the value of a data logger in extracting the most power from you car. Other posters don't think it's worth their money, or that it's just a fancy gizmo. Another reason why a poster gave as it not being worth the money is that he believed that since you can't change any of the ECU's operating parameters that it wasn't a useful tuning device.
That being said, I'd like to tell you that the pocket logger was the best money I ever invested in a vehicle. It paid its purchase price back within a day of my buying it. How you ask? Early model DSM's like mine are known to have a problem with the ECU which involves a couple of capictors in the power supply section of the PCB. By plugging in the Pocket Logger with the car at idle I could see that the battery voltage as read by the ECU was fluctuating over 1/2 a volt with the engine not running! Out with the ECU and replaced the 3 caps for $1.01. If I had driven around much longer the bad Caps in the ECU would have corroded even more of the components on the board, causing me to have to buy an $1100 ECU! Even remanned ECU's cost almost $500, but I don't much like remanufactured electronics.
Since then I've learned tons of useful info on the inner working of my ECU. Things like:
1. Why Does the ECU even care about battery voltage (trust me it's important!)
2. What triggers the ECU to go from closed loop control to open loop control
3. The real reason why using bigger injectors and an AFC increase power (it doesn't really have a lot to do with delivering more fuel)
4. How do I know if my O2 sensor is bad?
5. etc..
Most importantly I now have a baseline of all my major engine parameters. Any mods I do in the future can now be quantified. I will know exactly whether the changes I make have a positive or negative impact on acceleration
. To the people who say it's not worth the $175 (or around $275 if you buy a used Palm) and that you should just save your money and buy a stand alone EMS, I say how can you program the EMS if you don't have a base of knowledge about how your engine performed before you installed the EMS? For example, how would you know how much ignition advance is safe for you engine at a certain airflow? You could put in the wrong parameters in the EMS and blow your precious ITR engine in a heart beat.I have tried not to start a flame war with this thread, I just want to see if I could bring a few intelligent people into the fold of those who want (and can appreciate) an affordable data logger that is supported by a good community of enthusiasts and an even better company. Mike (the owner of digital tuning) has tried (and succeded in my opinion) to not only offer an excellent product for sale, but to put together an effective community where (good) help is always available for your tuning questions. IMO the mailing list and Yahoo group that all Pocket Logger owners are members of is even more valuable than the software is.
Tim
'91 Talon TSi (AWD), 16G,3" turbo back, RC550's, Buscher UICP, Greddy EGT and Boost gauges, CFDF clutch, Apexi SAFC (old style), HKS throttle body elbow, etc, etc, etc...
'90 240SX - Bone Stock
'00 ZX-12
'84 RZ-350
'91 DR350S (WB 441cc big bore, cam, 36mm FS carb, Supertrapp IDS, etc, etc, etc)
'97 KDX 220 (Bone stock, it doesn't need anything)
Other toys soon!
Moderator
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,232
Likes: 5
From: Browns Summit, NC, USA
Re: A Pocket Logger Users Perspective (91TalonAWD)
Excellent reply to previous threads....I stated that in about a sentence and did not go into the detail that you did....i would like to try one out but he doesn't make one for obd 1 cars yet....untill he does....i'm stuck with the stock crap!!
thanks
chad
14
thanks
chad
14
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,611
Likes: 3
From: Boston, MA, USA
Re: A Pocket Logger Users Perspective (typer98)
If you think about it, the pocket logger is really a great deal. Think about buying all those guages seperately, let alone something to record the readings from them. Sounds sweet to me, too bad no OBDI yet 
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,093
Likes: 0
From: US
Re: A Pocket Logger Users Perspective (KAMiN)
Well after reading that i will definately reconsider buying one. I'm OBD II unfortunatley but of well. So the data that it records is usefull data? Oh btw i have a Handspring visor, anyone have the CD that came with it so i can hotsync again. I will return it to you once i load it on my computer. Thanx.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Re: A Pocket Logger Users Perspective (91TalonAWD)
I had to register just to talk about this topic. There's too much BS flying around.
Number one: This is NOT a tuning device, this is a DATALOGGING device.
Number two: You cannot tune without knowing what's going on inside your engine. When you go to a dyno you get a wide band o2 shoved up your tailpipe so that they can tune your car...but why? You need to know if you are running rich or lean...but why use a wideband o2...why not a regular o2 sensor? Wideband sensors are calibrated, they are both accurate and precise. Accuracy implies it reads the EXACT a/f ratio. Precision says that the results are repetable, no matter what car they shove that sensor into it'll be the same.
Number three: No, o2 sensor's on cars are NOT worth crap, accuracy wise. BUT they are precise. If your o2 sensor is reading 13:1 (rich) but your car is running 14.7:1 (stoich), you o2 sensor will read that same 13:1 every time you are stoich. So while your dataloggs may not be able to be compared to other cars, for your car you get proper readings. How do you determine how far off your o2 sensor is reading? Use an EGT gauge. What I'm saying is that your o2 sensor readings are perfectly fine to tune by, if you know what to tune them for.
Number four: There are so many other variables that you can log with this thing that makes the logging of the o2 sensor just a benifit...I'll go down the list and give you the benifit's of logging each of these variables.
RPM: Alows you to see where in the RPM band you are getting knock, running lean, overrunning your injectors, etc etc.
Knock Sum (not available on OBDII): Allows you to see if your ECU is "seeing" knock. If it is seeing a really low knocksum (<3) you don't have to worry, but if it is between 3-7 you won't have additinal timing advance. And if you are over a 7 knocksum...woh boy, you are pulling timing and loosing power. You can see knock sum in the RPM band and TUNE your AFC in that band to add more fuel to give more power.
Timing Advance: Lets you see exactly how much timing your are getting, and where it's getting pulled. The more timing your are ABLE to run the better tuned your car is. Also if you are running LARGE ammounts of timing advance you know you can safely add more boost/nitrous.
O2 Sensor: Previously Discussed, plus lets you know if you are in closed or open loop.
Inj Duty Cycle: Let's you know if you are overrunning your injectors. You don't want to run too lean for your injectors and blow your engine. What good is an AFC if your injectors are already running at 100%, you can't add more fuel...and your AFC won't tell you that your injectors are maxxed.
Air Temp: Let's you know if that cold air intake really is working, and what effect intake temperature has on other variables.
I have just covered 6 out of 18 variables you can log, and given the advantages of seeing the individual variables...we aren't even going to get into looking at multiple variables at once and determining other tuning variables.
Even if you get a Stand Alone Engine Management system you still need a datalogging program. Most Stand Alone's come with (at an extra cost) their own datalogging software to run on your laptop. But do you know the PAIN of datalogging on a laptop? I do...I broke the screen on my laptop by datalogging in my car with it (slammed on the breaks and the laptop went flying). Also, the price of buying a laptop ($1000+) and then the Software ($300+) is SEVERAL times more than a m100 Palm ($109) and the Pocketlogger Software ($175).
Most of all you get to see what your engine see's at all times and you know if that new part you just installed actually improved your car or not. Plus you get to see exactly where in the RPM band, and at what throttle settings (hi, mid, or low) you need to add/remove fuel/timing on that nifty standalone of yours (or your AFC/ITC combo). It's MORE than worth the price.
Darrick Yezak
Number one: This is NOT a tuning device, this is a DATALOGGING device.
Number two: You cannot tune without knowing what's going on inside your engine. When you go to a dyno you get a wide band o2 shoved up your tailpipe so that they can tune your car...but why? You need to know if you are running rich or lean...but why use a wideband o2...why not a regular o2 sensor? Wideband sensors are calibrated, they are both accurate and precise. Accuracy implies it reads the EXACT a/f ratio. Precision says that the results are repetable, no matter what car they shove that sensor into it'll be the same.
Number three: No, o2 sensor's on cars are NOT worth crap, accuracy wise. BUT they are precise. If your o2 sensor is reading 13:1 (rich) but your car is running 14.7:1 (stoich), you o2 sensor will read that same 13:1 every time you are stoich. So while your dataloggs may not be able to be compared to other cars, for your car you get proper readings. How do you determine how far off your o2 sensor is reading? Use an EGT gauge. What I'm saying is that your o2 sensor readings are perfectly fine to tune by, if you know what to tune them for.
Number four: There are so many other variables that you can log with this thing that makes the logging of the o2 sensor just a benifit...I'll go down the list and give you the benifit's of logging each of these variables.
RPM: Alows you to see where in the RPM band you are getting knock, running lean, overrunning your injectors, etc etc.
Knock Sum (not available on OBDII): Allows you to see if your ECU is "seeing" knock. If it is seeing a really low knocksum (<3) you don't have to worry, but if it is between 3-7 you won't have additinal timing advance. And if you are over a 7 knocksum...woh boy, you are pulling timing and loosing power. You can see knock sum in the RPM band and TUNE your AFC in that band to add more fuel to give more power.
Timing Advance: Lets you see exactly how much timing your are getting, and where it's getting pulled. The more timing your are ABLE to run the better tuned your car is. Also if you are running LARGE ammounts of timing advance you know you can safely add more boost/nitrous.
O2 Sensor: Previously Discussed, plus lets you know if you are in closed or open loop.
Inj Duty Cycle: Let's you know if you are overrunning your injectors. You don't want to run too lean for your injectors and blow your engine. What good is an AFC if your injectors are already running at 100%, you can't add more fuel...and your AFC won't tell you that your injectors are maxxed.
Air Temp: Let's you know if that cold air intake really is working, and what effect intake temperature has on other variables.
I have just covered 6 out of 18 variables you can log, and given the advantages of seeing the individual variables...we aren't even going to get into looking at multiple variables at once and determining other tuning variables.
Even if you get a Stand Alone Engine Management system you still need a datalogging program. Most Stand Alone's come with (at an extra cost) their own datalogging software to run on your laptop. But do you know the PAIN of datalogging on a laptop? I do...I broke the screen on my laptop by datalogging in my car with it (slammed on the breaks and the laptop went flying). Also, the price of buying a laptop ($1000+) and then the Software ($300+) is SEVERAL times more than a m100 Palm ($109) and the Pocketlogger Software ($175).
Most of all you get to see what your engine see's at all times and you know if that new part you just installed actually improved your car or not. Plus you get to see exactly where in the RPM band, and at what throttle settings (hi, mid, or low) you need to add/remove fuel/timing on that nifty standalone of yours (or your AFC/ITC combo). It's MORE than worth the price.
Darrick Yezak
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