I have a friend with a shop that always gets cars from auctions, people that owe him for work done, etc. He has a DOHC Brown top ZC at the shop that some one gave him. He is giving it to me for free though. They are old schoolers, chevy's, olds, buicks etc. He knows that I am an import girl so he told me to come and get it. What does this fit into? Can it fit into my '91 Civic?? What are the specs? I went and looked at it today and it is a ZC but its not in the normal spot. It is on the backside.

 

ya itll fit into ur 91 civic but u need to go buy a black top zc head to have a good running motor

 

If it says ZC on the motor then it is a JDM motor with 130 HP and should fit 84-87 CRX and Civics. If it says D16a1 then it is a USDM motor from a 86-87 Integra and will fit those cars but only has 118HP. Either way it will not fit 88-91 CRX or Civic.

 

yes it will...
a guy thats comes up to the shop all the time has that motor in his crx w/ a black top zc head they fit fine
to you for saying they dont

 

so the guy changed the head??/ I thought that you mount the block. From my google searches. It won't mount up. What does the head has to do with it?? Please elaborate more.

 

Yes it will fit, it was a direct bolt on for my 91 Si. Just remember it has a Cam Angle Sensor so you need to get the right dizzy for it and it should just drop right in. And I would put a new clutch in since the trannys gonna be out anyhow. The browntop ZC is UKDM, black is JDM. Check http://www.thezcr.com for more information. - Darrell

 

boy am I now confused. So it will fit in my '91

 

i thought the brown tops were carberated? no? Either way, the brown tops are trash. It's free, so take it anyway.

 

Its a D-Series motor, just not marked by a D in Japan/Europe. It will bolt DIRECTLY into your hatch or crx. I speak from experience, also, you get to keep your stock A/C system.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OldSiHatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its a D-Series motor, just not marked by a D in Japan/Europe. It will bolt DIRECTLY into your hatch or crx. I speak from experience, also, you get to keep your stock A/C system.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Did you bolt in a brown or black top ZC?

 

The one that I am geting is a brown/olive top with an Fuel Injected intake manifold on it.

 

ive been outta the zc scene for a few years now, but I remember hearing that the brown top was the zc you DIDNT want to get.........why?...............I cant remember.

 

Any one have anymore info???

 

No, but I also heard that the brown top ZC was also the one NOT to get.

So that's 2 people who have heard it, free or not...I wouldn't take it.

 

I am going to get it no matter what. I can always sell it to the 1gen CRX ppl or 1gen integra ppl. I just wanted to know if it would've fitted in my hatch first.

Thanks for looking but you weren't any help. I have searched alot of boards and gotten conflicting answers. I want to hear from someone that KNOWS not heard. I.E Oldshoolhatch.

What I have learned is #1 ppl still call USDM Integra d16's ZC's. #2 they automatically think I am refering to a carb'ed engine. On hondaswap.com they consider usdm integra engine zc's. Thats where it all gets confusing.

 

Okay I see your problem let me try to give you the info you want with links to my resources.

1.The JDM ZC. The term ZC covers several different engines. The types I’m aware of are: DOHC 1.6 Non VTEC, Black valve cover. When people say ZC, this is the engine most of them will be referring to. Rated at roughly 130 hp and 108 ft/lbs. of torque. Very similar to the US Acura Integra for 88-89(D16A1) but with different mounts and head. This engine is called the D16A8 and A9 in European markets. It was available in the Japanese market CRX from 88-91, remained available in a lower end Integra until 93 and is still in use in several models of Land Rovers hatchback in England. So that means there are new ZCs out there but chances of you getting one of the older ones is more likely. This engine will bolt right in, no fabrication of mounts and no wiring problems. If you’re on a budget, you can even use your old si ecu, exhaust manifold and transmission, but these will choke the quoted 130 hp number to less.

2.DOHC 1.6 Non VTEC, Olive valve cover. A predecessor of the black valve cover, it’s power output is less @ 115 hp and mounts are different. Some discussion forums have reported a higher hp version of this motor but I have found nothing concrete. Given the lower hp and mounts that will require some fabrication, skip this one in favor of the black valve cover.

3.SOHC 1.6 Non VTEC. This one is a little more elusive but it’s out there. It looks nearly identical to the si D16A6 but is rumored to have a more aggressive cam and the same domed pistons that are in the black valve cover model that raises the compression ratio over the flat top pistons on the D16A6. It’s supposed to make around 120 hp. I would exercise caution on this one…short of taking the head off and looking at the pistons, there’s no way to tell that it isn’t just a D16A6.

Info from http://www.angelfire.com/nj4/hondacrx/swap.html

Pic of a Browntop ZC

Brown Top--European--duel carbs-- same power figures--86-87 Integra
Brown top--MPFI--130hp-115lbs torque, 86-87 Integra only,
Black Top--MPFI--130hp-115lbs torque, 88-89 Integra, 88-93 Civics OBD0 & OBD1

^ Info from "84civichbZC" on http://www.thezcr.com

This didn't seem to be clarified here, the Brown Top "ZC" is actually stamped d16a1 here in the states, and if your ever confused, here's the best rule of thumb: the black top DOHC ZC has 4 bolts on the edges of the valve cover, where the Brown Top will have the valve cover bolts mounted a lot closer to the plugs (more in the center of the VC).

^ Info from "cell7dotORG" on zcr.com

86-87=brown, vacum advance

88-89=black, electronic advance


^ "calmoc9" @ http://redpepperracing.com

From what I gather the mounts are different in the brown top DOHC ZC. They are from the 86-87 Integra's and are Vacuum advanced whereas the 88-89 are Electronically advanced. They seem to drop directly into 1st gen civics, some mounting issues with 2nd. Wish I could give you more info, but if you snoop around a bit at the sites where I quoted my info from I'm sure you can answer your questions. - Darrell

 

that is what i found also...although i haven't ever heard of people talking about the "brown top" as a carberated model...i never knew about that one.

spray paint it black and trade it for a DOHC ZC (black cover)

 

If its a brown top/olive top ZC it WILL NOT FIT your 88-91 crx/civic...they are made for the 1st gen crx/3rd gen civic...

if its a black top then it WILL FIT your 88-91 crx/civic

do not argue with me...

of course you can make anything fit, but its not bolt in...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crxgator &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If its a brown top/olive top ZC it WILL NOT FIT your 88-91 crx/civic...they are made for the 1st gen crx/3rd gen civic...

if its a black top then it WILL FIT your 88-91 crx/civic

do not argue with me...

of course you can make anything fit, but its not bolt in...</TD></TR></TABLE>


and the foot is down

 

 

It's apparent that people are wrong in the information that they give. I have been researching this topic all night and day and alot of information has been conflicting. Some say it can be done. Some say it won't. Some say it won't mount.

I talk to a friend that does these import swaps in my neighborhood (I don't go to him because he overcharges) and he told me that he did this swap in 3 cars so far. He said it will mount up. Only problem is the distributor. He was saying theres some kind of cap you have to take out and make the dizzy fit. 2 of the 3 bolts will mount, and the 3rd one had to be fabricated.

I was also told that it is vacuum advance vs the black top being electronic advance. So I may still go with it. I was reading some resources and it said if the stamp ZC serial # starts with a 2 then it is the 1st Gen ZC and if the serial # starts with a 5 then its a 2nd gen ZC and that the only difference is the dist. and the vacuum advance.

 

its not a bolt-in situation, for the effort/time your better off selling this brown top and buying a black top...the mounts are completely different...

 

You should get a Black top DOHC ZC, i luv mine

 

this is what you have to do to get the brown top zc to bolt in...thanks to quickhonda...

 

I appreciate the info. CRXgator. I am still getting it. If it will be too hard for my boys to install, then it will get sold.

I just wanted to get some accurate info for a change. People are quick to say "it won't work" but never really say why. They only say what they heard and not what they KNOW. Then again for all I know it MAY just be a black top. When I went into the shop yesterday and it was in his back room, which was dark and very dusty. Only thing that I can say is, I will see this weekend when I pick it up.
Like I said before, the guy that is giving it to me is a Chevy, Olds, american car type of guy. He doesn't know much about Hondas.