Ok, heres the deal. Ive got a B20 closed deck. I bought the engine with a blown headgasket. I took off the head, got it milled, it was out of spec after milling, so I replaced the stock head gasket with a copperspacer and a stock headgasket. I put the **** back together and now I have 70psi on #4 which does fire. and 60psi on #4 which does not but zero on the inner two cylinders...maybe 2 pounds if any. What is the deal? Did I do something wrong? OH I forgot to mention that I also put on some arp head bolts in the process. Does anyone know what the deal is? Im pretty sure that the copperspacer AND the stocker was too much but that still doesnt explain the two dead cylinders. I was thinking that possibly its the rings are gone, but the thing is the cylinders are mirror, no scarring at all. wtf is the deal???

 

Could be the rings as you said.. Could also be the block deck is bad, and needed resurfacing along with the head. Cracked/chipped sleeves, hole in your piston... Bad valves.

 

ill double check the cylinders and valves, but as far as I could tell it was all in near perfect condition.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by I Gotta Question &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ill double check the cylinders and valves, but as far as I could tell it was all in near perfect condition.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Im just tossing ideas man, its hard without seeing it in person ya know.

Hope it works out for you, take pics and post em if you want, maybe we can see something.

 

ill see what I can do, thanks guy

 

ok, the valves are seating like they should, the cylinders look good to me, the deck is level, the head is level. Is there anything im missing? Has anyone had this problem before? Does anyone know how to check to see if the rings are good? Any advice is greatly needed and appriciated.

 

Bring all the cylinders to the same height. Fill them each with oil and let it sit overnight, see if the middle two drop faster than the others. If its like you say, it should be a noticible difference.

Also, see if the piston has any play (forward+back, side to side) by moving it when the piston is up. It should have a LITTLE bit of play, but if you notice a lot, then its probably bad too.

Im not sure of an exact method to check without pulling the pistons out of the block...

 

GREAT LOL, I check this post too late, I just got done putting the head back on, I did try and move the pistons back and forth, they didnt seem to move at all. So, I tried to start it again, it still didnt start, I need to double check my timing now though, I took the stock head gasket off and now im running just the copperspacer gasket, I did a compression test and now the #4 has 120 and the #3 has around 80 and the #2 has around 60 and the #1 is around 50. I dont know what the hell the deal is. IM really starting to get agrivated.

 

did you torque the studs correctly? if so only place left to look for comp. is valves, seats and rings.

 

yeah I know, the valves and and seats all looked good, so really the only place left to look is the rings, and Keebler already gave me a good way to see if there any good, too bad I already put the head back on again. anyways, I'm going to work on the timing and see if I cant get it to run how it is and go from there, because I know that your not suppose to comp. test on a cold engine. Wish me luck guys and any more comments are greaty needed and appreciated.

 

WOW! you guys are tons of help.

 

Any results yet?

If the motor has been sitting for a long period of time or if it's just been rebuilt, then you are supposed to shoot a little oil into the plug hole to give the rings something to grab onto.
Then you check compression and real numbers appear.

 

thanks, I didnt think about that, ill give it a try

 

leakage test

 

Instead of waiting all night with that oil in the cylinder idea

They way to figure out if your rings are bad, you put 3 squirts of oil from an oil can (for mine anyways) or just poor a bit in there.

You said you already have your baseline numbers, throw some oil in and do an compression test on that cylinder as soon as you can, if it went up. Rings are done

The oil will fill most of the gaps and thus raise the compression, or if the motor is back in pieces you can do the wait all night shinanigans

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StealthEF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Instead of waiting all night with that oil in the cylinder idea

They way to figure out if your rings are bad, you put 3 squirts of oil from an oil can (for mine anyways) or just poor a bit in there.

You said you already have your baseline numbers, throw some oil in and do an compression test on that cylinder as soon as you can, if it went up. Rings are done

The oil will fill most of the gaps and thus raise the compression, or if the motor is back in pieces you can do the wait all night shinanigans</TD></TR></TABLE>

My recommendation was based on the fact that the engine was taken apart... Im sorry if those 'shinanigans' arent gonna deliver the concrete evidence needed if he has bad rings.

Worked for me, and if he has the engine is taken apart and he is testing various parts, the leakdown would be a viable test at that time.

 

Ok, let me ask a different question, now that I know im a dumbass.See, the reason for the odd compression, was from the fact that the inner combustion chambers are larger than the outter ones, due to milling the head so much, it is significantly different. So, my new question is "Will an engine not run from such an akward compression combination?" I assume that is why the hell my car wont start let me know what you think. Thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by I Gotta Question &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, let me ask a different question, now that I know im a dumbass.See, the reason for the odd compression, was from the fact that the inner combustion chambers are larger than the outter ones, due to milling the head so much, it is significantly different. So, my new question is "Will an engine not run from such an akward compression combination?" I assume that is why the hell my car wont start let me know what you think. Thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>


Go to the classifieds and get a new head



Im sure your engine will 'run' with differing compression, but not well. You need to get a new head, or get some serious rewelding done to the one you have. Probably have to have the pockets reworked and all that... Easier and better off getting a fresh head.

 

yeah I might, what you suggest I get? b16 would be the cheapest huh? What would that up the compression to?

 

ok, I did what you said and the oil in the number 2 cylinder went down faster than all the others, but the thing is, is that I didnt fill them up that full, only about 6 tablespoons in each one, then I cranked it up a little and I saw air bubbles come from #2 more than the rest, not much more but a little bit more. What do you think I should do with this engine?

 

Well, since the head is smoked, and looks like you need new rings/hone and probably bearings while your at it..

You have a couple options. You can try to find a new block, and maybe have the same problems, or invest a little time and money and do it yourself. If I were you, id pull the bottom end, and send everything out to a GOOD machine shop to get reground/honed and get the rods bored. Get some new rings and you are set.

As for the head, you probably need to find a new one, unless its repairable which I wouldnt think it is.

 

do you seriously think that I cant just use the bottomend in the shape it is? I really dont need it to run in tip top shape, its for my beater, so im not really all that concerned with how well it performs, as long as it gets me from point a to point b without too much hassle.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by I Gotta Question &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do you seriously think that I cant just use the bottomend in the shape it is? I really dont need it to run in tip top shape, its for my beater, so im not really all that concerned with how well it performs, as long as it gets me from point a to point b without too much hassle.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Bump, just got through with similar problem. No compression test, I just pulled the plugs out while it was running and the idle stayed the same. It does have some compression, and I too have ARP head studs. Before I rebuilt the engine, there was nothing wrong with it, only thing done was a 3 angle valve job, pistons, rod bolts, and ITR valve springs. Barely started it less than an hour ago, so I'll mess with it more tomorrow and see if I can't come up with a solution.

 

YEAH!!!!!My car is up and running Smoooooth. Only problem is I now need a new waterpump and my thermostat housing is cracked. But she runs like a champ until she gets hot, I love it I think I might just put the turbo back on it. Who knows.


EDIT: I honed the cylinders and changed the rings and bought a new head, I have NO regrets, this baby is running smooth...