Tires are new 225/35/18s SO3 on light 3 piece wheels.
Lets say the driver has a skill of 9 out of a possible 10.
And the car is a turbo teg that has 225 whp.
CM stage 4. Koni yellows on very firm setting.

Then give me opinion for 375 whp on street tires

 

I'm just wondering how you fit 225's on a teg...
My guesses are a mid-high 13 for the first, and low-mid 12 for the second. Maybe 11s. I'm not totally sure, though...

 

Here's some videos of our Project Integra running on street tires:

The 03.24.2001 videos specifically - turbo w/DOT rubber
http://www.c-speedracing.com/media.html

 

225 hahhahha those are some wide **** street tires!
i hope they dont' roll off the rim!!

is this your car?




[Modified by BoM, 7:44 AM 11/27/2001]

 

those collossal tires will ruin your day at the track, you can even lower tire pressure without ruining the rim, I say 14's with tons of - no hook till the 1/8th.
the second setup can go from 12 to 10's, like 10's on a 2000lbs Civic with suspension.

 

the second one wont make it down the track 375whp and 18s = AXLES....

 

18's!? If you made this car so mean for the street, why the hell did you get 18's? You are going to be hurting yourself in that depot.

 

pics of my teg with 18's
http://community.webshots.com/user/vtecturbo

I am disappointed with your responses. I wholeheartedly disagree with all of you. I understand your theory along these lines only....If you have a car with close to stock hp then you get tire and rim size close to stock...factory size is the best option.

But wouldnt you agree that as you increase the hp on the car, the smaller tires and rim combo just wont handle the power...They have to be adjusted in girth as the power is increased...just look at all the elite hondas that run humongous slicks that we cant even carry....are you going to tell them they are going to ruin theyre track time....just look at my car with the stock rims and tires...Ive driven with 8.5 lbs of boost...1,2,3 dont exist anymore....ON the 18s that is a different story. imagine 365 hp on those tires....can we say a black tar patch?? Cmon guys this one is a NO Brainer!

 

well, i drive a lude with 220whp, 215/40/17 S03s. of course it weight about 300 pounds more than your teg, but it also has more torque. a very very good pass nets 13.9x. my wheel are 17" mugens, fairly light but not truly "light." the 18s will hurt you, but i don't know how much.

 

Do you really think increasing the diameter (or even width) of your rims/tires is going to increase your grip? You shoulda payed attention in that high school physics class, you'd be surprised what useful stuff you can learn...

 

Ever notice how most "real" drag racers tires have a fairly tall sidewalls? That's like that for a reason. It aids launch dramatically. I.E. the sidewall of the tire takes some of the shock of the engines power, rather than the axles trans etc. With your bling-bling 18" wheels and rubber band tires, there's nothing to absorb the driveline shock but the driveline itself, hence the other members comments about goodbye axles.

I *had* 17" wheels and tires on my R, but I hated the effects they had on the car, and they are now gathering dust in the garage. I'll stick with the factory 15"s from now on.

Do what you want, but after launching your car hard on those rims/tires, either you'll be back here whining about crappy 1/4 times, or asking how to replace your axles/transmission.

 

Hmm...what do you mean, "won't handle the power"? The elite hondas that run big slicks are increasing the tire diameter, not wheel diameter....slicks are often on small 13" wheels. You want as light of a wheel as possible if you are competing in drag racing events. Even by increasing the tire width, you could be hurting your times by creating more friction with the road....also, each 10mm in tire width equates to about a pound or more in weight, from my research. It just doesn't pan out.
I would rather drag race with a 15" wheel than an 18" wheel any day....

 

actually you do want the wider contact area but you do not want the larger wheel diameter. The larger diameter affects the final drive of the car and 35 series side walls are too stiff for drag racing. I think everyone has already hit the weight factor...

I use 205/50-15 hard compound soft tires for the road and I will be using 215/50-15 super soft compound tires for drag events.


[Modified by drealgsr, 10:54 PM 11/27/2001]

 

This post was intended for street tires and has become a street tires vs slicks debate. There is no argument HERE that low profile street tires are better than slicks. I want to make that point clear.
Moving on, I have two sets of rims - stock 15 blades with 205/50s and 18 3piece wheel with 225/35. I want to know which are better to use at the drag strip since I will not be using slicks. The 205/50s dont have more than an inch, or possibly more, of tire wall height and will barely wrinkle. The 225/35s will not wrinkle at all but they do have considerably more width and more contact patch. I am inclined to dump the 18s in favor of 15 inch street slicks like the NT555R. Does any one else feel the street slicks will be better even though they dont have much of a tire wall height?

 

run the 15's, on the street and at the strip, the 18's arent good for anything but impressing kids

 

I feel I have to interject here . . .

Sport Compact Car, did an article a couple of months ago on the misconception of wheel diameter and how it affects weight and centrifugal force.

THE SIDEWALL OF A TIRE WEIGHS MUCH MORE THAN THE ALLOY OF A RIM.

Think about it - you've got a 15" wheel, right? and you're running on 195/55/15 tires. That big *** 55 series tire is gonna add more wieght than a couple more diameter inches of the wheel. The only problem, that I can see, would be a lack of traction because he's runing a tire with street tread - not because the wheels are so big.

I've got 17's on my car, and that's how I run it at the track, because I want my timeslip to be an accurate representation of what my car can do, any time I want it to. I like 18's, and sometimes wish that I had bought a set of them, because they look so damn good.

 

i haven't read the SCC article, but i wouldn't necessarily trust them.

if you really want to know what effect the rim / tire combo would have on acceleration, you'd need to calculate the moment of inertia of the whole assembly. keep in mind the following :

an 18" rim has the solid section further out from the center of rotation than a 15" rim. in order to have the same moment of inertia, that 18" rim would need to be more than 30% LIGHTER than the smaller rim. the same goes for the tire, although if you're keeping the outside diameter the same it's less of an issue. i'd be shocked if you could find an 18" 225 combo that didn't have a significantly higher moment of inertia than the stock combo. just for kicks i computer modeled my setup, and found that while the weight was approx 2lbs less, it was about 10% harder to rotate.

there are easy ways to physically test this too.

 

If that's true, then why would he have traction problems with an 18" rim? If its more difficult to rotate, then it would not "burn out" so easily, and he/she would yield a better 60' time?

 

the moment of inertia of the wheel effects the amount of power the car puts down, but traction has to do with other factors beyond power. see reference to high school physics above.

it'll be a tougher launch because the sidewall is so stiff and the rubber isn't made for drag racing.

 

guys guys guys.............I think I should jump on this thread here! You can read my real testing results!

I have 225/35/17 on my ITR and had a 14.337 for my first time on the track.
I puted on 205/50/15 on my stock rim and I hitted a 13.776 time AND THIS WAS with lots of wheel spin in 1st and 2nd gear.

The 17x8.5 offset 30 (YES, major fender work)! inch rim weights 40 pounds with the rubber, while the 205 with 15inchers only weight about 30lbs. Don´t worry, next year I buy me a set of 16x8 Volk TE37

I also was at my local tire shop with my bathroom scale and weighted some rubbers os different brands! I weighted some Good Year Eagle F-1 and some Dunlop SP9000 and one Pirelli

The 225/35/17 is 18.5 lbs -- F1
The 225/45/16 is 18 lbs -- SP9000 & F1
The 215/45/17 is 20 lbs -- F1
The 205/50/15 is 17.5 lbs -- SP9000
The 245/35/19 is 24 lbs -- F1
The 225/40/18 is 21lbs -- Pirelli
The 205/40/17 is 18 lbs -- SP9000.....I don´t know why this one is so light
The 225/45/17 is 21 lbs -- SP9000

NOTE: Since my azz bathroom scale is a bit inaccurate the results can vary about +/- 1 lbs.


[Modified by austrian ITR, 9:18 AM 11/28/2001]

 

good info. you can also get the ewights from the manufacturers :

bridgestone re92 :
21lb in 205/50/16 (prelude stock)
18lb in 195/60/14 (integra (?) stock)
17lb in 185/60/14 (civic (?) stock)
bridgestone s02 :
22lb in 215/40/17
23lb in 215/45/17
23lb in 225/35/18
ROUGH
given that most of the weight of a tire is at the outside, you can get a very rough idea of the rotating mass by comparing the squares of the radius (NOT the wheel radius but the TIRE radiues) times the weight.

195/60/14 is 23.3" o.d. : 11.7*11.7*18 = 2443
225/35/18 is 24.2" o.d. : 12.1*12.1*23 = 3367

so the quick and VERY dirty answer is that the big tire is about 38% harder to turn than the little one. in order to be the same, it would need to weigh about 6.5lb less than it really does.

the truly bored can get out the formulas for the moment of inertia of a cylinder, deduce the formula for a tube and two rings from it, make some assumptions about the relative thicknesses of the sidewall and tread, and really figure it out. or, you can mount your wheel to a thin axis and hang a weight on it.

 

I have tryd to get the weights from the manufactors, but nobody knew it. Nobody else before me has asked the weight question direct at Good Year Austria. SO I thought WTF, I go and weight it myself

 

all i know is the car is geared to run best with the wheel size from the factory. if you increase size you lose a little speed, but gain in handling. The larger diameter increases the force required to turn them and increased weight also reduces performance. This was dyno'd in a magazine, not too long ago. With every bigger wheel, the dyno'd hp figures would drop about 5hp.
i also noticed how launching my car on low profile tires is a lot harder and gets a lot less traction. Z rated tires on 16" rims getting worse off the line traction than stock rims with cheap stock replacement tires. I would spin my tires all freakin day and get shitty *** times. Go back to stock and instant hook up at full throttle with a chirp off the line to say "perfect launch". With my current set up i get a few spins even with partial throttle. While other factors may be cuz i am slightly off camber or tire pressure, but it can't make that big of a difference!
It sucks, but the pay off is handling, which is nice. Braking is also a lot better with this set up. To me, great handling is more important... but to others with only concerns for speed... keep the ricer style stock donuts. You get better straight line performance than if you were rollin on anything bigger.

 

S03.. I'm using street legal tires but too bad I live Japan. 14", 15" and 16" wheels with 50/55 series tires will always perform better than 17" and 18" wheels with 35/40/45 tires on a street driven drag car. Until you get into the big sizes(255 and up) most of the smaller tires are just show tires because of the compounds used. If you are gonna drag the car you need to find a tire size and compound combo that will meet your needs. There are also tires out there that give better traction and life than the 555r's. You just need to do a lot of research.... Kuhmo, Goodyear drag radials(don't last as long), Yokohoma and Dunlop(Japanese spec).. blah blah blah.

Reverend .... a 15" wheel with 55 series tires is lighter than the same make 16" wheel with 45 series tires. That being said.. try to guess the difference between the same 15" setup against a 225/35-18 setup.