Just ordered some new recaros and have a question:

A) Looking into some harnesses and i'm not sure how i want to mount them. I dont want a full cage, but I am considering the Sparco Harness bar. I've been told that a harness needs to be mounted at shoulder level behind the driver or it could cause serious spinal injury (if it were mounted to the floor). that being said, is this true, or a myth. how should a harness be properly mounted?

B) what is the legality of a harness? are they legal on the road? as i can i get pulled over by a cop and have him say i dont have my belt on?

let me know

 

STEP 1
-harnesses are not to be used without a minimum of 4pt cage


let us know when you get past step 1

 

explain, im not looking for an attitude.......im looking to learn.

 

How you mount your harnesses: (notice: rollbar, seats, and SFI approved padding)



On the floor they go in with bolts and 2x3" backing plates.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr. Vapor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">explain, im not looking for an attitude.......im looking to learn. </TD></TR></TABLE>

https://honda-tech.com/zerosearch?query=harness
https://honda-tech.com/zerosearch?query=harnesses
https://honda-tech.com/zerosearch?query=belts
https://honda-tech.com/zerosearch?query=cage
https://honda-tech.com/zerosearch?query=rollbar

(search for both "recent content" and "archived content")

The reason for Travis' short answer is that this topic comes up at least once a week here, and no one bothers to search - and many times its from street-stunna idiots for cany0n drifting.

 

picture your car upside down, teter-totering on your head. looks like you've been around long enough to know how to search. search for "harnesses with no cage," or other similar phrases. you'll be reading for weeks.

 

Yes, i understand the concept of a seatbelt allowing one to "get out of the way" of an upturned car.

on my for not searching (whatever happened to that icon)

lastly, question still didnt get addressed, what is the proper mounting point for a harness behind the driver?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr. Vapor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lastly, question still didnt get addressed, what is the proper mounting point for a harness behind the driver? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Did you not see the pic?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Did you not see the pic?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I did, but i wasnt sure if that bar that the harness is mounted to is standard on all roll bars, or only on that particular set up. jeez man, why the angst?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr. Vapor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I did, but i wasnt sure if that bar that the harness is mounted to is standard on all roll bars</TD></TR></TABLE>

Every rollbar I've seen has one *but* make sure before you buy one or have it built for you - just in case.

Edit: The autopower "street" rollbars do not have a harness bar, and some autopower bars have removeable harness/diagonal bars - if you get one, just weld the damn things in.

 

great, who makes a decent roll bar? i want a race ready one, not a "show" bar.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr. Vapor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">great, who makes a decent roll bar? i want a race ready one, not a "show" bar.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Did you see this?<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Edit: The autopower "street" rollbars do not have a harness bar, and some autopower bars have removeable harness/diagonal bars - if you get one, just weld the damn things in.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Go here.

http://www.ioportracing.com

Find the roll bar for your car, and you will be set!

 

Autopower and Kirk Racing - *however* if you are going to go that route I recommend finding a local race shop (ask around from the SCCA crowd to see where they are taking their cars, look at their work, etc) and having one custom built, even if it is a bolt-in.

If you buy an autopower ($350ish) and then ship it ($100-120) and then install it ($300 at a shop, or 5-7 hrs of your own time) you might as well just have had one custom made for less money, and it will probably fit better.

 

Kirk and Autopower are two that come to mind.

 

great info......how much "safety" am i compromising by getting a bolt in cage? instead of a weld in

 

:::holds Mr. Vapor's hand:::

slowly walks him to the search feature......

 

:::serves Mr. Vapor answers on silver platter:::

would you like a sippy cup to make sure you don't spill on yourself Mr Vapor?

:::spoon feeds Mr. Vapor:::

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=617582
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=278890

Your search for roll cage returned 92 results.

&lt;--- feeling like a jerk today

 

I'm going to play devils advocate here. The "don't use harnesses without a rollbar" idea gets thrown around a lot on various messageboards, but I have yet to see anybody post any study that proves that it is dangerous. The BMW photo that always gets posted IMHO is not proof that you should or shouldn't do it. Are any clubs outlawing the use of harnesses without a rollbar? I'm not aware of any.

And, secondly, who's to say that using a rollbar in your daily driver is safe? That always seems to be what people suggest, but if you do that in the car you drive every day, is it necessarily safe?

Again, just playing devils advocate.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Brett@SoloRacer.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm going to play devils advocate here. The "don't use harnesses without a rollbar" idea gets thrown around a lot on various messageboards, but I have yet to see anybody post any study that proves that it is dangerous. The BMW photo that always gets posted IMHO is not proof that you should or shouldn't do it. Are any clubs outlawing the use of harnesses without a rollbar? I'm not aware of any.

And, secondly, who's to say that using a rollbar in your daily driver is safe? That always seems to be what people suggest, but if you do that in the car you drive every day, is it necessarily safe?

Again, just playing devils advocate.</TD></TR></TABLE>

there was a topic about this last week, someone had posted an article from schroth saying that even in street applications, a full harness is safer than a seatbelt. from what i read it made some sense:

rolling over can crush the roof and your head if you're strapped in, that makes enough sense, but apparently that's not the only danger. when your head hits your b pillar at a few hundred meters/s that'll probably kill you before getting crushed does. A properly worn harness may only break your neck...

with that said, i don't use a harness on the street, but i use one in A/X without a roll cage. Am i tempting fate? maybe.

also to the og poster: roll cages are dangerous in street driven vehicles or anythime you're driving sans helmet. so if this is a daily driver you're thinking about putting a roll cage into, think again

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Brett@SoloRacer.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm going to play devils advocate here. The "don't use harnesses without a rollbar" idea gets thrown around a lot on various messageboards, but I have yet to see anybody post any study that proves that it is dangerous. The BMW photo that always gets posted IMHO is not proof that you should or shouldn't do it. Are any clubs outlawing the use of harnesses without a rollbar? I'm not aware of any.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes. they do this by requiring BOTH a harness and a rollbar, essentially outlawing the use of one without the other.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And, secondly, who's to say that using a rollbar in your daily driver is safe? That always seems to be what people suggest, but if you do that in the car you drive every day, is it necessarily safe?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

it's not.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes. they do this by requiring BOTH a harness and a rollbar, essentially outlawing the use of one without the other.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just curious, which groups?

NASA does not prohibit it, and I'm sure some clubs (BMWCCA and Audi club) all but encourage it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes. they do this by requiring BOTH a harness and a rollbar, essentially outlawing the use of one without the other.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Who? What specific organizations and clubs? I've been to a lot of HPDE's and seen many drivers, including instructors, using harnesses in cars without rollbars/cages.

 

woops. i was thinking of actual racing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr. Vapor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">explain, im not looking for an attitude.......im looking to learn. </TD></TR></TABLE>


long story short:

a lot of people in this forum give attitude to those who may not have the racing knowledge they do. there are very few people experienced enough to justify such an attitude, and im sure none of them surf HT

PM any opinions to keep this thread on topic

 

I don't know for sure if running a harness on the street is illegal (though I have heard it is) but it definately isn't something you want to do. When properly strapped into a Sparco seat with a 5pt harness, you will have next to no mobility. You won't even be able to look over your left shoulder to thoroughly check your blind spot. And forget about getting to your wallet at the drivethrough.

Futhermore, depending on the type of seat you purchased, the effectiveness of the stock belts when used with a "bucket" seat is compromised. The belt won't be able to lay across your hips correctly, and will not be as effective in a crash.

The harness needs to be mounted to the chassis of the car (not to the seat bracket) and should drop no more than 30 degrees (?) below the height of your shoulders. This means using a cage with a crossbar, or mounting the shoulder belts to the chassis somewhere in the vacinity of the rear deck. This can be a problem if you have a full interior.

If you are at a point where you want a harness to increase your safety for racing or driving schools, then maybe it's time to consider a track only car. A lot of us drive our track cars to and from the track, taking the risk of a collision on the street with the stock belt and no helmet, but I wouldn't recommend using a track car for daily driving.

How do you plan to use the car? Which Sparcos did you get? Have you mounted the seats yet?

If the harness is just for show, then I don't think anyone here is qualified to assist you.