Simple question from a simple mind. The b16 has often been called the torqueless wonder. I'm not surprised (I have a Ferio). So how do you bump up the torque? Thanks.

 

Boost will increase torque significantly

 

couldnt you add a stroker kit to turn that little torqueless wonder into a 1.8....bore the cylinders to rediculous sizes like 84.5 or 85mm...and obviously that 75 shot nitrous...that adds ins tant torque!!
correct me if im wrong

 

the reason why they are torqueless is because one the bore size it sonly 1.6liter second.

the second is that in stroker kit the size of the piston the bore is not changed but it increases torque. due to the packaging of the motor the rod stroke ratio and wut not if you stroke a motor it wont be able to rev as high and the b16 engine design was made to rev high and have less stress on the sidewall which in turn makes less torque but allows you ot rev higher.

basically all honda motors are designed to rev higher in trade off of torque number but we can get away with it due to our cars beign light and the gearing. the gearing of the b16 is considered pretty short. i personally wouldnt stroke the motor u can if u want but i wouldnt. bore it out to 2.0 84.5mm if you want torque.

 

That's what i thought: something mechanical and something major.
Would gearing help? Again, a question from the uneducated.
Thanks guys.

 

A good header will bump up torque too...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiRP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Would gearing help? Again, a question from the uneducated.
Thanks guys.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, a simple downshift will bump your torque to over a thousand foot-pounds.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LSVTEC 91 Civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A good header will bump up torque too...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes something where the exhaust runners are longer coming off of the head. Also, the stroker kit should really help.

 

2 B16's will double your torque

 

well, to bump up torque in general, yeah, you can get a great header, or lengthen the runners on your intake manifold, or intake. they add velocity and resonance. and the end result is more clean air in your engine, and faster gases exiting. thats alot of fluid dynamics i can't really help explain well

but mechanically speaking, torque is really the force causing the engine to rotate, somewhat like a long breaker bar. longer the bar, greater the torque used to remove those stuck bolts. thats why 89mm cranks have more torque then 77.4mm cranks in a b16.

the only way to increase that force is to get a longer crank to increase the leverage or bore your motor out and use bigger pistons, which causes the force against the crank to increase because you have more volume of mixture. both make your motor bigger, and bigger motors will have more potential torque.

you gain piston speeds by adding stroke, which may mean you can't rev as high. boring is good, but still will not have that initial leverage of a longer stroke on the low end. but high end will make up for it.

so to answer your question, you cannot really "add" torque, by keeping everything inside your engine stock. but just make the best of what you have. the more efficient your motor runs, (good air flow, higher compression, right amount of fuel, and efficient burn), your car will be closer to running at 100% of its physical capabilities.

best way to increase what you have now is to tune torque to peak at a higher rpm. by using cams and exhuast or what not. also using a larger t-body will help add throttle response which in turns helps you "feel" torquier. i said feel because on a dyno you may not see more hp or tq.

there's no way a 77.4mm crank will feel the low end of a 89mm or 95mm crank, given the same size motor, but at least it'll feel more fun. good luck

 

stroke the bitch. also, running more timing will increase torque, much less so on a n/a application then on an f/i application, but then running too much timing can be deadly. its a tough call on that one

 

Take off the head and put it on a LS or CRV block.

Turbo it.

Or smaller diameter exhaust (2 inch ID).

Automatic Transmission.

What he said.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lsos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yes, a simple downshift will bump your torque to over a thousand foot-pounds.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks a lot. I feel so much more enlightened. Now go do your homework.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by viprtwo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> you cannot really "add" torque, by keeping everything inside your engine stock. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That one I kinda knew already. But thanks for the rest of the info. Great help.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiRP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Would gearing help? Again, a question from the uneducated.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lsos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yes, a simple downshift will bump your torque to over a thousand foot-pounds..</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiRP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks a lot. I feel so much more enlightened. Now go do your homework.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hey man, you asked, I answered. Damn good answer, too, as it's the reason why a torqueless b16 can outperform engines 3x its size.

If your question was whether even shorter gearing than stock would help, then yes, it will bump your torque up even higher.

What's the problem?

 

gearing multiplies torque short gearing is a must b16 got short gearign.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lsos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If your question was whether even shorter gearing than stock would help, then yes, it will bump your torque up even higher.

What's the problem?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Right on look at semi's and tractor trailors. The majority of their tq is created by the transmission.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiRP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Thanks a lot. I feel so much more enlightened. Now go do your homework.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lsos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If your question was whether even shorter gearing than stock would help, then yes, it will bump your torque up even higher.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This one i get. But bumping torque by over a thousand lb/ft with a downshift? Please explain. Max torque in a Ferio is, what, a little over a hundred. So where does the thousand lb/ft happen? Is it momentary, then you go back to the usual?

Sorry for the misunderstanding. When i said "simple mind" i meant it. And without an explanation to go with the "simple downshift" statement, the simple mind thought you were making fun of it.

 

simple way to add torque

swap in a V8

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiRP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This one i get. But bumping torque by over a thousand lb/ft with a downshift? Please explain. Max torque in a Ferio is, what, a little over a hundred. So where does the thousand lb/ft happen? Is it momentary, then you go back to the usual?

Sorry for the misunderstanding. When i said "simple mind" i meant it. And without an explanation to go with the "simple downshift" statement, the simple mind thought you were making fun of it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's not momentary, it's throughout the whole powerband. That's the whole point of a transmission, to multiply torque. After all the multiplication, a b16 will be putting out around 1300-1400 lb-ft at the wheels in 1st gear. Even a V8 doesn't have enough torque to move a civic unless it's multiplied by a transmission.

 

nobody said up the compression(besides boost), wtf?

the gears "shortness" in a transmission has less to do with it, its the final drive ratio that multiplys your torque, your individual gears just detemine acceleration(sp?) and top speed

 

Simple mind asks: then why is claimed max torque just a tenth of the first gear numbers?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiRP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Simple mind asks: then why is claimed max torque just a tenth of the first gear numbers? </TD></TR></TABLE>

The max torque given is at the flywheel. It is what the engine directly puts out. It tells you more about the character of the car then if they gave you the max torque at the wheels. The transmission takes the flywheel torque and muliplies it to whatever they design it to. You could slap on a transmission that multiplies it to a hundred times flywheel torque.

It's kind of like when you tell someone how much you bench...it's how much weight you can directly press with your chest. Fact is, you could use a lever or pulley system to press a million times that weight, but it won't really tell anyone anything about your strength.

As for final drive and shortness of the gears...they both have equally to do with torque multiplication. You multiply the flywheel torque by the gear ratio and then by the final drive to arrive at the wheel torque. The only difference is that the final drive is fixed, and the gear ratio isn't (unless you change the final drive...)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GITWIDIT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... look at semi's and tractor trailors. The majority of their tq is created by the transmission.</TD></TR></TABLE>Oh. Now I see... So those engines are 120 lbf-ft screamers that only make power above 5000 rpm.

Oh wait - Cummins web site says for their ISX engines, the LOWEST torque is 1450 lbf-ft at 1200 rpm.
http://www.cummins.com/na/page...tings

 

Lsos is absolutely correct here. Flywheel torque (which is the torque number that engine manufacturers often talk about) means almost nothing once you get to the wheels. You can make a B16 put out 1 million ft. lbs of torque if you geared it right... not exactly rocket science either. The only number that really matters in terms of how fast a vehicle will be able to accelerate is power. Power essentially tells you how much torque you can make to the wheels while they are spinning at a given RPM.

This is very similar to the electrical terms voltage, current, and power. If you bought a device that says "5 amps", you know it is powerful becuase your household current is fixed at 117 volts (5*117= 585 watts). If you bought something for your car that consumed 5 amps, it would not be nearly as impressive becuase it only does that at 12 volts (12*5=60 watts). In either case, it isn't really the voltage or the amperage you are concerned with, it is the total power it can put out. In fact, if you put the 585 watts from the first device through an efficiant transformer and reduced it's potential to 12 volts, it operate at 48.75 amps. In this example, the transformer is equivalent to a gearbox. Power can be measured in watts or horsepower, although it is generally measured in watts in places outside of the US.


Modified by db2integra at 5:02 PM 7/26/2004


Modified by db2integra at 5:09 PM 7/26/2004