short shifter or no?
i was thinking about getting a short shifter for my soon to be GSR. but then someone told me that it messes up the synchros or something? eh i dunno much about it. but yea short shifter or no?
Lets not talk about mods for your imaginary car. I don't talk about the blower I want to get for my not existant camaro. I think the stock gsr shifter feels awesome as it is. Its all preference. It can be hard on a tranny if you don't shift well to begin with. But make sure you get a good one. If the telemetry is thrown off then it can be harmful.
I personally dont like short throws, nor have I sampled one that I have liked to begin with, But I hear good things about the dual bend genre of short throws. Make sure you get one that is geometricaly correct, or you could find yourself mis-shifting a lot
I have used to short shifters for my DC2
First was was B&M - Never again, too tough of a shift
Second was Skunk2 - I still use it, very happy with it.
I've been to the track and tested it enough.
The B&M comes with an optional aluminum bushing - this causes way too much stress on the shift linkage, enought that I broke mine in half.
The skunk2 comes with a polyur bushing. Either way you will notice not just a difference in the throw but also in the response.
First was was B&M - Never again, too tough of a shift
Second was Skunk2 - I still use it, very happy with it.
I've been to the track and tested it enough.
The B&M comes with an optional aluminum bushing - this causes way too much stress on the shift linkage, enought that I broke mine in half.
The skunk2 comes with a polyur bushing. Either way you will notice not just a difference in the throw but also in the response.
i just installed my skunk2 SS 2 weeks ago and i can tell you, i like it. just make sure you get their **** also, it makes a world of a difference in feel compared to the stock **** i was running for a week because i had a problem with the first one i got.
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I have a Skunk2 double bend short shifter in my GSR it its great. A short throw will not mess the synchros up. I say go for it, but whatever manufactor u go with, get one with a double bend. Oh yeah make sure you put it facing the right way.
i have a DC Sports short throw in my integra and i really like it. It was actually the first mod i did to my car and now i don't know how people drive with such a long throw (then again, mine is a 91 ls...)
Forget short shifting. You just want to shift faster right? Try this.
http://www.fastlineperformance.com/shifter.htm
What do you guys think? I'm considering it, but not sure if that's what I want.
http://www.fastlineperformance.com/shifter.htm
What do you guys think? I'm considering it, but not sure if that's what I want.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DCcliffjumper2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">whatever you do, just don't cut the stock shifter
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Why do you say that. Just out of curiosity.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Why do you say that. Just out of curiosity.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spender1326 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Forget short shifting. You just want to shift faster right? Try this.
http://www.fastlineperformance.com/shifter.htm
What do you guys think? I'm considering it, but not sure if that's what I want.</TD></TR></TABLE>
aside from the fact that it's horrible looking, i kinda like it. if i had a full on race car that would easiily be a modification i'd persue.
http://www.fastlineperformance.com/shifter.htm
What do you guys think? I'm considering it, but not sure if that's what I want.</TD></TR></TABLE>
aside from the fact that it's horrible looking, i kinda like it. if i had a full on race car that would easiily be a modification i'd persue.
Originally Posted by spender1326
Forget short shifting. You just want to shift faster right? Try this.
http://www.fastlineperformance.com/shifter.htm
What do you guys think? I'm considering it, but not sure if that's what I want.
http://www.fastlineperformance.com/shifter.htm
What do you guys think? I'm considering it, but not sure if that's what I want.
, that thing is hugh (no I'm not quoting my girlfriend
), that fastlineperformance shifter is very tall.........it looks like you would be driving a semi-truck......they have a good sounding argument, but I'm not convinced. Here's is there argument:
Originally Posted by fastlineperformance.com
TurnFast.com, an excellent road racing resource, discusses the techniques of proper shifting in a technical article:
"Many people fall into two bad habits on the street when shifting. First, "Hollywood" has taught everyone that it looks cool to always leave your right hand on the shift ****. Wrong! You may as well tie your hand behind your back as leave it on the shift ****. Your hand belongs on the steering wheel--always. When you need to shift--shift, and get your hand back on the wheel. Don't even rest it on the shifter for a few seconds ahead of time to "get ready." Every time your hand leaves the steering wheel you've given up 50% of the tactile feedback you have from your hands, and 50% of your capability to control the car. If you're racing with other cars around you, you never know when you may get tapped. Even when racing alone, mechanical failure may cause handling trouble. You'll want both hands on the wheel when that happens."
The problem with short shifters:
1. The aftermarket wants you to believe that the solution to the problem is shifting faster. 'Short shifters' do this by decreasing the shift throw, allowing you to feel like you are shifting faster. In reality, the transmission regulates how fast you can shift, not the shifter. Shifting too fast causes synchro wear ('crunching' between shifts), and forcing the shifter into gear (easy to do on short shifters) bends or breaks the shift forks inside the transmission.
2. 'Short shifters' are all shorter (height wise) than the stock shifter. While this may look 'cool' or give the illusion of 'performance', it is the furthest thing from the truth. The stock shifter is too far away from the steering wheel to provide proper shifting and steering techniques in the first place. So the worst thing to do is move the shifter even farther away from the steering wheel (with a shorter shifter).
3. Most all short shifters are made of aluminum. Aluminum is inexpensive and easy to manufacture, but it is soft and easily broken. There are many cases where even expensive short shifters from reputable companies shear off during shifts, in some cases causing over revving and engine damage. See the picture below:
(click picture to enlarge)
Steel is a better material due to its strength, and won't shear like aluminum short shifters. But steel short shifters still suffer the same basic design flaws as aluminum ones.
4. The other problem with aluminum is weight. Due to their lightness, aluminum short shifters transfer engine and transmission vibration directly to the driver. The stock shifter is made of steel, so its weight helps dampen the annoying vibrations and rattling expected with aluminum short shifters. A few steel short shifters are available, but again, all short shifters suffer the same basic design flaws.
5. Aluminum short shifters upset the counterbalance of the shift linkage. The shifter is connected to the transmission via the shift linkage, so when you shift you are moving both the shifter and the linkage. The stock shifter feels so smooth because its steel construction provides increased weight to counterbalance the weight of the linkage. Aluminum short shifters feel much worse because the weight balance of the shifter and the linkage has been upset. Shifting is now 'bottom-heavy' with a lighter shifter moving a heavier linkage.
6. Short shifters feel notchy, due to a combination of factors (weight, drastically shorter throw, etc). But another reason is the linkage bearings. Most short shifters use the same linkage bearings - metal 'roller blade' bearings that make shifts feel notchy and rough. Shift feel worsens as the bearings wear. The stock shifter uses rubber bushings that help dampen vibrations, but the rubber deforms easily and deteriorates quickly, making shifting very sloppy.
Better control starts with a better shifter:
The problems outlined help explain why many people remove their aftermarket short shifter after breaking them or being unhappy with their performance (or lack of). Most opt just to keep their stock shifter to begin with because of the notchiness and rattling attributed with short shifters.
The stock shifter has an excellent feel and throw, and does not cause transmission damage, but due to its height does not allow your hands to stay on the steering wheel as much as possible. Besides wasting time with every reach for the shifter, you also sacrifice vehicle control on the street and track (where it matters the most).
You do not need a short shifter to shift faster - the stock shifter throw is fast enough (too fast sometimes). And you certainly don't need to reduce steering control with a shorter shifter (height wise).
What you need is a better shifter.
(click pictures to enlarge)
Over 2 years in development, the FLP Road Race Performance Shifter provides just that - better shifting. Designed from scratch to be the best shifter possible, it is designed with features unlike any other aftermarket shifter available. From the ergonomic design that just falls into your hands, to the very first ultra-smooth shift, it is clear that this is not just another short shifter. In fact, this shifter was designed specifically to maintain the exact same ratio as the stock shifter. The shifter certainly does not look stock, but the shift feel and throw is 100% like the stock shifter.
The most striking features are the s-bend and extreme height compared to stock - see the comparison of the Road Race Performance Shifter vs. the stock shifter:
(click picture to enlarge)
The s-bend places the shift **** in a full upright and ergonomic position, not cocked away from the driver like the stock and short shifters. The extreme height places the shifter right next to and even with the steering wheel, providing the proper position for the driver to concentrate on driving the car, not reaching for the shifter. When you are better able to control the vehicle, and shift more effectively because there is less wasted motion reaching for the shifter, your track times improve. This important difference is demonstrated below:
Finally, the Road Race Performance Shifter shifts very smoothly and accurately. That's because we use expensive Delrin bushings, a superior bushing material. Delrin resists abrasion and impacts, has high stiffness and tensile strength, high fatigue endurance, mechanical resilience, wear resistance, and is not affected by temperature or humidity. It also has excellent insulating characteristics, which helps it absorb road and engine vibrations. It will not rattle or cause rpm resonation like the 'roller blade' bearings found in short shifters.
Check out the in-car video of the shifter in action. As you can see, the Road Race Performance Shifter allows the driver to maintain full steering control of the car by keeping his hands on the wheel. The height of the shifter allows fast and accurate shifts, and the bearings make those shifts crisp and smooth.
(click to download video)
Whether you are Road Racing, Autocrossing, or driving on the street, you will notice the difference right away. And don't forget about the competition - they too will be sure to notice the difference.
Additional Features:
• Precision CNC-machined, T-303 stainless steel construction with quality TIG welds
• Shifter is placed in the optimal position - right next to the steering wheel for maximum steering control and minimum shifting time
• Delivers crisp, accurate shifts with no sloppiness, annoying vibrations, rattles, or notchiness
• Counter weighted design provides optimal balance of shifter and linkage - provides super smooth shifting with minimal effort
• Retains the same identical throw as stock (not shorter, not longer) so it won't risk transmission damage like short shifters
• Delrin linkage bushings won't deteriorate, deflect, or deform
• Designed to work with stock shift ****, interior, and shift boot
• Attractive satin-finish looks great on the circuit or street
• Includes new OEM Honda pivot bushing, stainless steel hardware, detailed installation instructions
• Carries a lifetime guarantee against manufacturing defects
(click pictures to enlarge)
Available for all 90-93 Integra, 94-01 Integra*, 88-00 Civic, 88-91 CRX, 93-97 delSol models with manual transmissions.
*Note: Shift throw will increase slightly compared to stock on 94-01 Integra models.
Road Race Performance Shifter - $149
Click to go to the Order page
"Many people fall into two bad habits on the street when shifting. First, "Hollywood" has taught everyone that it looks cool to always leave your right hand on the shift ****. Wrong! You may as well tie your hand behind your back as leave it on the shift ****. Your hand belongs on the steering wheel--always. When you need to shift--shift, and get your hand back on the wheel. Don't even rest it on the shifter for a few seconds ahead of time to "get ready." Every time your hand leaves the steering wheel you've given up 50% of the tactile feedback you have from your hands, and 50% of your capability to control the car. If you're racing with other cars around you, you never know when you may get tapped. Even when racing alone, mechanical failure may cause handling trouble. You'll want both hands on the wheel when that happens."
The problem with short shifters:
1. The aftermarket wants you to believe that the solution to the problem is shifting faster. 'Short shifters' do this by decreasing the shift throw, allowing you to feel like you are shifting faster. In reality, the transmission regulates how fast you can shift, not the shifter. Shifting too fast causes synchro wear ('crunching' between shifts), and forcing the shifter into gear (easy to do on short shifters) bends or breaks the shift forks inside the transmission.
2. 'Short shifters' are all shorter (height wise) than the stock shifter. While this may look 'cool' or give the illusion of 'performance', it is the furthest thing from the truth. The stock shifter is too far away from the steering wheel to provide proper shifting and steering techniques in the first place. So the worst thing to do is move the shifter even farther away from the steering wheel (with a shorter shifter).
3. Most all short shifters are made of aluminum. Aluminum is inexpensive and easy to manufacture, but it is soft and easily broken. There are many cases where even expensive short shifters from reputable companies shear off during shifts, in some cases causing over revving and engine damage. See the picture below:
(click picture to enlarge)
Steel is a better material due to its strength, and won't shear like aluminum short shifters. But steel short shifters still suffer the same basic design flaws as aluminum ones.
4. The other problem with aluminum is weight. Due to their lightness, aluminum short shifters transfer engine and transmission vibration directly to the driver. The stock shifter is made of steel, so its weight helps dampen the annoying vibrations and rattling expected with aluminum short shifters. A few steel short shifters are available, but again, all short shifters suffer the same basic design flaws.
5. Aluminum short shifters upset the counterbalance of the shift linkage. The shifter is connected to the transmission via the shift linkage, so when you shift you are moving both the shifter and the linkage. The stock shifter feels so smooth because its steel construction provides increased weight to counterbalance the weight of the linkage. Aluminum short shifters feel much worse because the weight balance of the shifter and the linkage has been upset. Shifting is now 'bottom-heavy' with a lighter shifter moving a heavier linkage.
6. Short shifters feel notchy, due to a combination of factors (weight, drastically shorter throw, etc). But another reason is the linkage bearings. Most short shifters use the same linkage bearings - metal 'roller blade' bearings that make shifts feel notchy and rough. Shift feel worsens as the bearings wear. The stock shifter uses rubber bushings that help dampen vibrations, but the rubber deforms easily and deteriorates quickly, making shifting very sloppy.
Better control starts with a better shifter:
The problems outlined help explain why many people remove their aftermarket short shifter after breaking them or being unhappy with their performance (or lack of). Most opt just to keep their stock shifter to begin with because of the notchiness and rattling attributed with short shifters.
The stock shifter has an excellent feel and throw, and does not cause transmission damage, but due to its height does not allow your hands to stay on the steering wheel as much as possible. Besides wasting time with every reach for the shifter, you also sacrifice vehicle control on the street and track (where it matters the most).
You do not need a short shifter to shift faster - the stock shifter throw is fast enough (too fast sometimes). And you certainly don't need to reduce steering control with a shorter shifter (height wise).
What you need is a better shifter.
(click pictures to enlarge)
Over 2 years in development, the FLP Road Race Performance Shifter provides just that - better shifting. Designed from scratch to be the best shifter possible, it is designed with features unlike any other aftermarket shifter available. From the ergonomic design that just falls into your hands, to the very first ultra-smooth shift, it is clear that this is not just another short shifter. In fact, this shifter was designed specifically to maintain the exact same ratio as the stock shifter. The shifter certainly does not look stock, but the shift feel and throw is 100% like the stock shifter.
The most striking features are the s-bend and extreme height compared to stock - see the comparison of the Road Race Performance Shifter vs. the stock shifter:
(click picture to enlarge)
The s-bend places the shift **** in a full upright and ergonomic position, not cocked away from the driver like the stock and short shifters. The extreme height places the shifter right next to and even with the steering wheel, providing the proper position for the driver to concentrate on driving the car, not reaching for the shifter. When you are better able to control the vehicle, and shift more effectively because there is less wasted motion reaching for the shifter, your track times improve. This important difference is demonstrated below:
Finally, the Road Race Performance Shifter shifts very smoothly and accurately. That's because we use expensive Delrin bushings, a superior bushing material. Delrin resists abrasion and impacts, has high stiffness and tensile strength, high fatigue endurance, mechanical resilience, wear resistance, and is not affected by temperature or humidity. It also has excellent insulating characteristics, which helps it absorb road and engine vibrations. It will not rattle or cause rpm resonation like the 'roller blade' bearings found in short shifters.
Check out the in-car video of the shifter in action. As you can see, the Road Race Performance Shifter allows the driver to maintain full steering control of the car by keeping his hands on the wheel. The height of the shifter allows fast and accurate shifts, and the bearings make those shifts crisp and smooth.
(click to download video)
Whether you are Road Racing, Autocrossing, or driving on the street, you will notice the difference right away. And don't forget about the competition - they too will be sure to notice the difference.
Additional Features:
• Precision CNC-machined, T-303 stainless steel construction with quality TIG welds
• Shifter is placed in the optimal position - right next to the steering wheel for maximum steering control and minimum shifting time
• Delivers crisp, accurate shifts with no sloppiness, annoying vibrations, rattles, or notchiness
• Counter weighted design provides optimal balance of shifter and linkage - provides super smooth shifting with minimal effort
• Retains the same identical throw as stock (not shorter, not longer) so it won't risk transmission damage like short shifters
• Delrin linkage bushings won't deteriorate, deflect, or deform
• Designed to work with stock shift ****, interior, and shift boot
• Attractive satin-finish looks great on the circuit or street
• Includes new OEM Honda pivot bushing, stainless steel hardware, detailed installation instructions
• Carries a lifetime guarantee against manufacturing defects
(click pictures to enlarge)
Available for all 90-93 Integra, 94-01 Integra*, 88-00 Civic, 88-91 CRX, 93-97 delSol models with manual transmissions.
*Note: Shift throw will increase slightly compared to stock on 94-01 Integra models.
Road Race Performance Shifter - $149
Click to go to the Order page
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DCcliffjumper2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">they have a good sounding argument</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ever watch WRC? Note the location (and height) of the shifters on those cars.
Ever watch WRC? Note the location (and height) of the shifters on those cars.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraBoy04 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yea, but that's rally racing. Not everyday driving.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraBoy04 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">they have a good sounding argument, but I'm not convinced.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry, I was under the impression that you were unsure about the integrity of their shifter. So I was comparing it to the height/position of the WRC shifters.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraBoy04 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">they have a good sounding argument, but I'm not convinced.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry, I was under the impression that you were unsure about the integrity of their shifter. So I was comparing it to the height/position of the WRC shifters.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraBoy04 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Why do you say that. Just out of curiosity.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's more of a personal preference and opinion than any tehcnical reasoning:
1. It ruins your stock shifter, and you can never go back to it.
2. It keeps many shiftknobs from fitting tightly due to the threads being gone. I like a stock type shift ****, threaded down nice and tight. It has a great feel as opposed to the aftermarket shift ***** that have little allen screw tighteners.
3. I doubt the geometry of it is correct.
just a few of my reasons. Don't know if any of them are the most convincing reasons to not do it, but oh well.
Why do you say that. Just out of curiosity.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's more of a personal preference and opinion than any tehcnical reasoning:
1. It ruins your stock shifter, and you can never go back to it.
2. It keeps many shiftknobs from fitting tightly due to the threads being gone. I like a stock type shift ****, threaded down nice and tight. It has a great feel as opposed to the aftermarket shift ***** that have little allen screw tighteners.
3. I doubt the geometry of it is correct.
just a few of my reasons. Don't know if any of them are the most convincing reasons to not do it, but oh well.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DCcliffjumper2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It's more of a personal preference and opinion than any tehcnical reasoning:
1. It ruins your stock shifter, and you can never go back to it.
2. It keeps many shiftknobs from fitting tightly due to the threads being gone. I like a stock type shift ****, threaded down nice and tight. It has a great feel as opposed to the aftermarket shift ***** that have little allen screw tighteners.
3. I doubt the geometry of it is correct.
just a few of my reasons. Don't know if any of them are the most convincing reasons to not do it, but oh well.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
You can always cut it and rethread it, so you can still use the stock ****. I was thinking of doing that at one time just so the **** would sit a little bit lower than it currently does. But I don't wanna ruin the shifter.
It's more of a personal preference and opinion than any tehcnical reasoning:
1. It ruins your stock shifter, and you can never go back to it.
2. It keeps many shiftknobs from fitting tightly due to the threads being gone. I like a stock type shift ****, threaded down nice and tight. It has a great feel as opposed to the aftermarket shift ***** that have little allen screw tighteners.
3. I doubt the geometry of it is correct.
just a few of my reasons. Don't know if any of them are the most convincing reasons to not do it, but oh well.
</TD></TR></TABLE>You can always cut it and rethread it, so you can still use the stock ****. I was thinking of doing that at one time just so the **** would sit a little bit lower than it currently does. But I don't wanna ruin the shifter.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Xymox007 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry, I was under the impression that you were unsure about the integrity of their shifter. So I was comparing it to the height/position of the WRC shifters.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DCcliffjumper2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">they have a good sounding argument, but I'm not convinced. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I didn't say anything about the argument.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DCcliffjumper2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">they have a good sounding argument, but I'm not convinced. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I didn't say anything about the argument.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IntegraBoy04 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I didn't say anything about the argument.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Right, but you're not convinced. So I pointed out the same similiar setups the WRC cars are running. Which is a shifter closer to the driver's wheel.
Right, but you're not convinced. So I pointed out the same similiar setups the WRC cars are running. Which is a shifter closer to the driver's wheel.
ok can someone tell them that my skunk2 shifter is the same height as my stock shifter so that they can take that false info off their website.


