Over the past year I've been battling brake issues, trying different compound, adding ducting, ect. Finally after replacing my M/C I thought I'd finally got my brakes dialed. During the H-C race on Sunday the brakes started going away the last few laps. The pedal stayed firm but the pads seemed to have very little bite. When I pitted the brakes were smoking and the rotors had deep grooves in the circumference. Could it be from using cheap Autozone rotors? or did I just overdrive the pads? Would an aftermarket rotor (Cobalt) offer better resistance to such an event? Cobalt said it was the cheap rotors, but I'd like to get some other opinions.

BTW: The setup is 99 Civic SI 10.3 inch brakes up front with Cobalt Spec VR's, race weight is 2300.

 

my cheap autozone rotors hold up just fine. :shrugg:


no abs?
are the rears working? any rear lockup?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my cheap autozone rotors hold up just fine. :shrugg:


no abs?
are the rears working? any rear lockup?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No ABS. The rears seem good, I did have rear lockup issues when I ran Carbo XP8's up front and Hawk HP+'s in the rear but now with Axxis Ultimates they don't seem to lock as easily.

 

i was talking to Larry from Carbotech at Summit Point and he was telling me that cheap Autozone rotors don't last for **** compared to a quality rotor.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 6ghatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BTW: The setup is 99 Civic SI 10.3 inch brakes up front with Cobalt Spec VR's, race weight is 2300.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You got to much speed in that car to be running those small rotors.. You have no mass/clamping force with those "GSR" brakes.. I don't care what pad/fluid you have, its not going to feel good..

Call Brian at fastbrakes, grab some 11" 2 piece rotors and some ITR/Prelude VTEC calipers then your problem will be gone.. Warren parting out his ITR, might be a good place to look for a 1"MC and booster and calipers..

Its funny about the rotors... I used to run autozones with no problem and no one at Cobalt ever told me not too..

 

My curiousity was peaked by the reference to fastbrake. I saw the price which sounds reasonable but was disappointed to see that they have drilled rotors. There is no sound engineering reason for that. A inexpensive two piece rotor would be nice.
Darn.
Barry H.

 

If you are running HC, I can't see this setup lasting. We ran the same setup and toasted the brakes at Buttonwillow. They got so hot that the backing plates on the pads were powder white and the friction material started crumbling. Since then we have swapped to a modified wilwood kit and no issues what so ever.

With the 99 si setup we had powerslots and hawks blues.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You have no mass/clamping force with those "GSR" brakes.. I don't care what pad/fluid you have, its not going to feel good..
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hmm...Curpier won H1 at CMP earlier this year. His hatch has a Type R swap. And GS-R brakes....

Going into turn one, his rotors were a color I called "Awe Inspiring Orange".

But I'll certainly agree that Type R brakes should solve your problem. Big beefy rotor...Mmmmm....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Hmm...Curpier won H1 at CMP earlier this year. His hatch has a Type R swap. And GS-R brakes....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just because he won doesn't mean his brakes are great..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by apexinghonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My curiousity was peaked by the reference to fastbrake. I saw the price which sounds reasonable but was disappointed to see that they have drilled rotors. There is no sound engineering reason for that. A inexpensive two piece rotor would be nice.
Darn.
Barry H. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Solid rotors are available, he just probably has crossdrilled pictures up for the "bling bling" crowd.. They are just wilwood disks with his custom hats..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda318dx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Call Brian at fastbrakes, grab some 11" 2 piece rotors and some ITR/Prelude VTEC calipers then your problem will be gone.. Warren parting out his ITR, might be a good place to look for a 1"MC and booster and calipers..
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've been looking into that 2pc 11" rotor setup for awhile now, maybe its time....

I'm already using the ITR M/C and booster.

But I may need to stick with my current setup for VIR. Maybe just replace the rotors and use my old XP8's. I'll try and hunt down some ITR calipers before the following race.

Right now I need tires.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Fuuma0083 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i was talking to Larry from Carbotech at Summit Point and he was telling me that cheap Autozone rotors don't last for **** compared to a quality rotor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

LMFAO!!!
And how would Larry 'cast iron' better?

fyi.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=181691

 

I have the same set of Autozone rotors and i've had them since mid-season last year....

running VRs (in fact, same set of pads as well)

no ducting

Chris, you need larger rotors...

 

i've had teh same rotors for the last year!!!

no cracks....

 

I remember Autozone having two levels of quality for rotors. Maybe....

 

thats classic brake fade. you have several options:

1. lighten up that car! of course there are limitations to this method (rules being number one on the list!).
2. use pads with a higher heat tolerance. consequences to the surrounding parts may be high, though. rotors, cv joints, ball joints, bearings, etc, may suffer.
3. get bigger, thicker, rotors and calipers to match. heat dissipation will be better, higher brake torque, bigger swept area, etc.
4. drive slower! obviously, this is a non choice!

my probe gt, with me in it, weighs in at 2870. brake system is inferior to the GSR. smaller rotors and chumpmiester calipers from the factory. i live with what you are describing from lap 4-7 on til the end of the race. the last 5 laps of sundays race i was slowing the car with a combination of brakes (pedal to the floor!), downshifting vigorously into lower gears thus pushing the motor way way way over redline (8500-9000 revs) and providing lots of motor induced retardation, and finally letting the car slide into the turn at a high slip angle to further slow the forward progress.

oh, i was using fresh autozone rotors and hawk blue pads up front, cobalt spec c in rear. after sundays race, the hawks were bent into a banana like shape, with about 1/8" of crumbly white disintegrating brake material remaining. i've tried the cobalt pads, almost all of the carbotech stuff, porterfield, etc. nothing will stop that car for long with the factory brakes. i just have to live with it and learn to adjust!

i'd tell you to get the Type R setup for the front of your car; my H1 hatchie stops awesome with the Type R brakes; no fade and the equipment lasts a long long time!

good luck at VIR!

 

the two piece setup aint cheap
at $90 per replacement rotor

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dan GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the two piece setup aint cheap
at $90 per replacement rotor</TD></TR></TABLE>

where are you getting 2 piece rotors for 90??

 

Could it be from using cheap Autozone rotors?


nope

 

KVR here in Canada has a sweet 2 piece rotor. I just got a set. They ahve aluminum hats, slotted, direectional vents, 11inch with a 4x100 bolt pattern. not cheap though. but i had a $450 credit on my credit card so i figured what the heck

 

i concur with the itr 11" being your best bet. but if you want to try a better rotor, try http://www.racingbrake.com ;one of the team iac subaru boys sponcers. so far we have had good results with the upgraded material, solid face rotors on the turbo cars.
-spenc

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

where are you getting 2 piece rotors for 90??</TD></TR></TABLE>

for the replacement
not the initial cost

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd Reid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thats classic brake fade. you have several options:

2. use pads with a higher heat tolerance. consequences to the surrounding parts may be high, though. rotors, cv joints, ball joints, bearings, etc, may suffer.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry for the off topic, but can i understand this as "the pad will stay hotter, making the environating rubber/metal hotter itself (prematurate wear)" ?

Jesus, i feel like this sentence doesnt make any sens, hope you understand it tho !

Pat

 

Here are a few pics of the damage.

The rotors.... 2 race weekends....


The pads.... 2 race weekends....


The caliper piston...


At the risk of sounding stupid, Is this just a dust boot or a seal? Will this be ok to use in this condition for one more weekend?

* Plus my hubcentric rings melted to the rotors, I guess I should be using metal ones.




Modified by 6ghatch at 9:04 PM 7/15/2004

 

now u conviced u need to go 11" ?


buy ryan's itr calipers
read my how to
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=734560

but at least two sets of fastbrake rotors, 1 as a backup

also i still have the 11" rear kit available