Ill post pics of the chart a.s.a.p
191.8 HP 126.4 TQ

Heres the setup
STROKE=STOCK

b16a head + bottom end

wiseco 12.1 84mm pistons
darton sleeves
alaniz competition series P+P head with pro-chamber work
portflow valvetrain
oem valves
knife-edged crank
eagle rods
web racing cams - duration is a custom grind comparable to skunk2 stage 2/3
skunk2 Intake manifold
Iceman airforce intake
JG 65mm TB
rc 310cc injectors
JDM ITR ported header , running open no exhaust
Unorthodox Racing Crank pulley
Exedy 9lb flywheel + 3 puck race clutch
jdm ys1 cable lsd trans
MSD HVC II blaster
Hondata s200
Hondata Intake manifold gasket

compression tested at 225 across all 4 cylinders
hoping to run 11's in my all motor 88 DX CRX fiberglass/lexan race car
apologize for the sporadic listing, its hard to remember everything
for all those hoping to get some HP out of there stock stroke b16
questions/comments?

power drops off around 8,500
waiting for my hytech header to put her over 200 whp ill re-post when she gets here

 

nice power.

 

sounds like a nice seup and nice numbers also ...whats that crx weigh in at? ...keep us posted ...

 

nice numbers lets see that graph

 

just my pocket change here...

seems kinda low. 84mm would make it into a 1.8L, most gsr or Ls motors average TQ to be in the 130-140+ range depending on compression.i understand the stroke plays a part in your TQ, just my opinion,for the 12.1 compression you have you should be seeing more power.

for referance, my untouched stock block b16 made 189.9 with CTR cams on an ECU with a gsr head and JG headers. notice my lowly 113TQ

another example is our lsvtec with 81.25 PR3 pistons and Gsr head and skunk2 cams with AN-R header is making 217 at the wheels on dynojet with over 140TQ.
thats also without hondata....

your gonna need a bit more power to run 11's, even in a CRX. you will also need a new final drive.

good luck

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by letholone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just my pocket change here...

seems kinda low. 84mm would make it into a 1.8L, most gsr or Ls motors average TQ to be in the 130-140+ range depending on compression.i understand the stroke plays a part in your TQ, just my opinion,for the 12.1 compression you have you should be seeing more power.

for referance, my untouched stock block b16 made 189.9 with CTR cams on an ECU with a gsr head and JG headers. notice my lowly 113TQ

another example is our lsvtec with 81.25 PR3 pistons and Gsr head and skunk2 cams with AN-R header is making 217 at the wheels on dynojet with over 140TQ.
thats also without hondata....

your gonna need a bit more power to run 11's, even in a CRX. you will also need a new final drive.

good luck </TD></TR></TABLE>

o crap i didnt even see it was sleaved... i thought it was still 81mm bore, i should read closer.

id say there is def some more power that can be made on that setup

 

What does the car weigh? 11sec crx's are fun

 

well just for your information, im not trying to sound defensive, I posted my numbers to recieve both praise/criticism but lets get some facts straight

an 84mm piston with a stock b16 crank produces an almost even 1.70 liters of displacement

a stock b17 producted 1.68
a b16 1.58
a gsr 1.79 ect....

im really tired of people comparing the b18-b20 relation of the same crank and 81 vs 84mm piston size increasing the displacement from 1.8 to 2.0

and trying to use that logic to justify the false statement that an 84mm piston b16 is 1.8L , it is not and we need to realize this as a community

im not commenting on other people's dyno sheets, thats great that your stock bottom end b16 produced 180 something whp, congradulations

I was hoping for something over 200 whp but ill be content with 192 till the dart block arrives in the mail.

for a 1.7l with 12.1 comp and a tiny stroke I think she'll do pretty good, it revs like a b16 with crazy torque. The stock motor ( intake, ex. ect... ) put down 143 and 102
that motor ran a 14.70 in a 2300lb car

I haven't weighed the crx yet but its an 88 dx, all fiberglass body, lexan windows, gutted, single race seat, lighting of the chassis wherever possible, ect...

im told something like 1700 lbs with my in it? we'll see. Anyone with a similar car or setup let me know how you did so I know what to expect, thanks again for responding guys.

 

i can make 195 hp with an all stock b16a bottom end with ctr cams, ferrea valve train. my build has cost around $1200 so far.

power isnt made with name brand equipment...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RABHonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i can make 195 hp with an all stock b16a bottom end with ctr cams, ferrea valve train. my build has cost around $1200 so far.
.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats pretty impressive, you care to share some of your secrets or are you just here to brag?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RABHonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

power isnt made with name brand equipment...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree, machine work and proper assembly play a bigger part than most realize.

 

Doesn't 225psi seem low for that high compression ratio? I have p30 pistons in a b16 block with a gsr head (somewhere from 10.6-11.0) and I read 260psi in each of the 4 cylinders.

 

Yes it seems low , but he's running big cams which will affect the dynamic compression because of overlap.

 

I sent you an email bro.

 

good numbers...not many out there still willing to build b16's. i got something of the same set-up

b16 block
b17 crank and rod with p30 pistons
alaniz pnp head with welded chambers
junIII cams
hondata s200
mugen header
itr manifold
jg65mm tb

this netted me 187.6whp and 127.3tq

im in the process os slappping on twm itb's and moving to ctr pistons. anyway the numbers look great...you should hit some respectable times...
i think your power band drops off a little early though but anyway keep us all posted on the times for b16 diehards

 

tricks of the trade...lets see.

take the crank to the machine shop for balancing, cutting, and edging. have them cut as much off as possible, making the counter balancers small, then knife edge. make sure no pre-existant drill holes are left on crank, if so, fill, then balance. micro-polish crank.
shot peen/polish the rods, then balance them out.
balance the pistons to within one/tenth.
balance entire rotating assembly to 10k rpms.
plateau hone, or if you got nuts, mirror polish the cylinders for the least amount of friction youve ever thought about.
low-tension rings for your pistons.
ctr pistons that have been cut, smoothed, and rounded.
d16 rod bearings.
drill/camfer main bearings for improved oiling.
run bearings clearances towards the loose end of the spectrum.

balance the entire valve train, ie:rocker assemblies.
run single springs with alum-magn retainers, 7 d forged valve locks.
drill vtec lock pins in rocker assemblies.
micro-polish the cam and bearings.
mill the head.
port and polish it...this is where the real power is made.
tungsten valve seats for braggin rights.
match all ports to I/E manifolds the right way...another sport where power is made due to flow characteristics.

cut the top of the IM off, get to work with the grinder. pretend the aluminum is now translucent, and make it look like a "v" inside.
match the TB to the IM.
polish the TB, while rolling the lip to straighten the airflow better.
eliminate all coolant passages to IM.

run a lightened OEM flywheel...this is just better for when the engine makes it to the car, and helps it with drag launches. Fidanza flywheels are good for road racing, the extreme light wheels anyway...but they will kill drag launch times.

thats it...now its ready for the engine dyno.

i didnt include everything, by the way.

 

Thanks for taking the time to post all that.

I disagree with some of what you posted.. I'll list one..

"port and polish it...this is where the real power is made."

Most of the power is made by a good valve job, not porting.

 

ya im building a b16 and a few engine builders recommended me just getting chamber work and a good valve job!

 

no real engine builder knife edge's the crank. it's more like making them aero dynamic.

knife edging them takes off way to much material usually and causes improper balance.

 

sounds like somebody has been reading they're super street

im going to try and post some pics today, its my first attempt so bear with me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RABHonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">tricks of the trade...lets see.

take the crank to the machine shop for balancing, cutting, and edging. have them cut as much off as possible, making the counter balancers small, then knife edge. make sure no pre-existant drill holes are left on crank, if so, fill, then balance. micro-polish crank.
shot peen/polish the rods, then balance them out.
balance the pistons to within one/tenth.
balance entire rotating assembly to 10k rpms.
plateau hone, or if you got nuts, mirror polish the cylinders for the least amount of friction youve ever thought about.
low-tension rings for your pistons.
ctr pistons that have been cut, smoothed, and rounded.
d16 rod bearings.
drill/camfer main bearings for improved oiling.
run bearings clearances towards the loose end of the spectrum.

balance the entire valve train, ie:rocker assemblies.
run single springs with alum-magn retainers, 7 d forged valve locks.
drill vtec lock pins in rocker assemblies.
micro-polish the cam and bearings.
mill the head.
port and polish it...this is where the real power is made.
tungsten valve seats for braggin rights.
match all ports to I/E manifolds the right way...another sport where power is made due to flow characteristics.

cut the top of the IM off, get to work with the grinder. pretend the aluminum is now translucent, and make it look like a "v" inside.
match the TB to the IM.
polish the TB, while rolling the lip to straighten the airflow better.
eliminate all coolant passages to IM.

run a lightened OEM flywheel...this is just better for when the engine makes it to the car, and helps it with drag launches. Fidanza flywheels are good for road racing, the extreme light wheels anyway...but they will kill drag launch times.

thats it...now its ready for the engine dyno.

i didnt include everything, by the way.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

You did that for 1200 including CTR cams & ferrea valve train. B.S. unless you are an machnist with all your own equipment and not including your own time (time is money).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RABHonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i can make 195 hp with an all stock b16a bottom end with ctr cams, ferrea valve train. my build has cost around $1200 so far.

power isnt made with name brand equipment...</TD></TR></TABLE>

BTW CTR pistons don't make a stock bottom end. (see above).

You don't want to port match your I/E manifolds. You want oversizing on the intake head ports and exhaust manifold to prevent reversion.

Running an OEM flywheel that has been lightened is a good way to get you and those nearby killed! Darwining theory at its best..

I won't get into the rest of your message, but needless to say MOST of your special touches won't do anything for HP gains.

With all that work done I have serious doubts you'd pull anywhere near 195whp on a 1600cc B series. More like 170whp (and that is including your CTR pistons with a milled head).

 

port and polish includes the valve job. they have to work the seats in conjuction with the ports.

veris, you dont know ****.
running low tension rings with a plateau hone is going to increase the machanical efficiency of the engine, which in turn is gonna give me much better horsepower gains than running a name brand piston/ring.
same goes for running d16 rod bearings...they are thinner than the b16's, reducing the total frictional area of the bearing, which obviously is gonna raise the mechanical efficiency of the engine also.
micro polishing bearing journals will also raise mechanical efficiency.
and you always drill the main bearings so they dont starve for oil.

any good machinist will knife edge a crank to reduce windage. a stock crank weighs something like 30lbs i believe. each counterbalance spade weighs at least 3 lbs. you have two counterbalance spades per piston/pin/rod. the piston/pin/rod do not have a combined weight of 6lbs. so already, the crank is outta balance. by cutting the **** out of it will bring it closer to being completely in balance, increasing horsepower by increasing mechanical efficiency. Scat makes a 16lb ultra light crank, by your ignorance, that crank is ****.

i can alignhone **** in my garage. but im not a machinist. since i know what the **** im talking about when i go to the machinist, that and i bring him work, i get a discounted price. i had the cams prior, when i payed just under $1000 for a b16b long block fresh from japan. but i wouldnt pay more than $400 for both cams anyway. i had many ferrea valve train peices laying around, so the only part i had to buy was the spring itself. i had to tear down a junked ITR head to get the valve spring seat locators. but OEM peices can be bought from honda for $32/whole set.

lightened flywheel...youre a ****** moron. ran that **** for quite a while, but yet ive never killed a friend. ive never blown a stock unit up. i guess i know what im doin when i cut the flywheel, on the brake lathe.

i said, "match the ports the right way."

how can you even come close to what hp im making without know what compression im running? i could be running 13.5:1 compression on a daily driver, making buckets of hp. i have a friend running 14:1 compression on his d16z6 that is making 180 daily driven horses. listen boy, i know what im doing, you dont know ****.

 

own3d

 

haha...i love this guy. he has nothing to show other tahn...I KNOW MY ****, BITCH..NOW GO KILL YOURSELF FOR NOT WORSHIPING ME LIKE THE GOD I AM!!!

what a douche

oh no...now he's gonna as a stupid question about a b16 to prove he's the better person...watch..here goes!!

 

"Scat makes a 16lb ultra light crank, by your ignorance, that crank is ****."

knife edging and light weight are not 1 in the same scat also recommends Ti rods and light weight after market pistons as well with that crank

and no good machinest will knife edge again they will make it aerodyanmic for the simply reason they are called counter weights removing weight from there outer most parts makes them less effective unless you like your engine to run rough

BTW this is an very detailed pic of the most powerful honda f1 engine in history ( something like 1300+hp from the turbo era) notice the cranks not kife edged





Modified by eg2R at 7:51 PM 7/18/2004

 

1. You keep on changing your story. It started as a 195whp B16A built for $1200. Now it is a B16B motor built with $1200 plus a bunch of parts you already had. I guess skunk2 can build a 200whp B16A for free because they already have all the parts.

2. Your block and parts give you atleast a 25 hp advantage on a B16A out of the box. Even with that I highly doubt you are making 195 whp let alone for $1200.

3. Even an ultra light 16lb crank will not make more than 2 or 3 WHP. The interia losses through rotation are small on the crank due to its small diameter. The gains are much smaller than a flywheel upgrade!

4. No one who could actually do a quality alignhone would ever suggest they could do it in their garage. Hand held tools are crap. Machine shops are around for a reason; precision is key!

5. You may not have killed your self yet, but lighted oem flywheels due become grenades. The loss of structural integrity and high rotational speeds are a receipe for disaster. People have died from this in the pasts, and they will in the future if they take your advice.

6. “Match porting the right way” is like saying “I built my engine the right way.” It is meaningless. Further by definition port matching will not prevent reversion! You don't want to match the ports!

7. I do know your compression. I know your block, head, and pistons. Piston to valve contact will occur if you’ve milled your head over .045” with CTR/ITR cams. All this means your CR is 12-12.5:1. If you have flat valve faces then add .3.

I’m no boy and while I may be a trial user on this board I’ve been around the scene for a LONG time.

towsondragcrx sorry for thread jacking. My intention was to stop some of the BS in its tracks. I think your dyno numbers are impressive for your set up. What type of dyno and what altitiude are you at?