Modified by slowr6 at 4:55 PM 9/1/2007

 

You won't ever be able to build a car that excells in all 4 areas. You could build one that is OK in all 4 but it won't ever be competitive in any of them. All 4 require different setups that are not really all that close to each other. Your best bet is to pick the one you would do the most, set the car up for it and then just do the others for fun and deal with the cars inefficencies in those areas.

 

3 letters...C R X!! GYEAAAH!

What i do for auto-x and track events is that i run the car exactly as it sits. I just put on my hankook stickies on all 4 corners and have a blast. For drag events i have a seperate pair of upper control arms with adjusted camber so i can get close to zero camber. I slap on my nitto 555r's and have a blast there. And i drive the car daily on 14 inch panasports. Its a great car.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evil Drew M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You could build one that is OK in all 4 but it won't ever be competitive in any of them. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree and disagree.

My CRX with B16:

- Competitive in bracket racing
- Competitive locally in DM. If i left the interior in, it'd be competitive in SM2 nationally (one of the guys who took 2nd or 3rd at the Arizona National event matches times with me).
- COULD be competitive in H1... if given a bit more power. but, this is merely speculation.

it's possible... just requires money and a lot of changes... from tyres, to shock settings, to alignment.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Driven &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">- COULD be competitive in H1... if given a bit more power. but, this is merely speculation.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not with a soft autocross suspension on it . . .

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Driven &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it's possible... just requires money and a lot of changes... from tyres, to shock settings, to alignment. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well doesn't that sort of defeat the goal of having a car that fits well in all 4 categories?

The best answer I can come up with for his question would be a Corvette Z06.

 

I'd have to agree with Drew I think. While I don't know a great deal about drag racing setup, what I've heard and what makes sense to me according to the physics of how the car would behave is that a softer front suspension would be ideal on a drag car. You definitely do not want a soft suspension for tracking for obvious reasons. Also, the engine tuning/mods would be different. Drag engines seem to prefer higher-revving power, as most of the time that's where the engine is working for them. For tracking/autoxing, midrange power seems more important, as the engine is working throughout a wider rpm range. Also, drag cars would I think tend to run wimpier brakes (in the front for a FWD, for a RWD, I don't imagine this being as much of an issue) to allow for smaller wheels and slicks. Naturally, that's not good for tracking.

Sure, there are cars that can do all of those things well, but as stated, it wouldn't necessarily be competitive in any of the areas. Driven, not to criticize or anything, but I have a friend who's competitive in bracket races with his CRX, and he's running consistent 18s. I suppose if all you were interested in was bracket racing, then yes, you could be successful at that and still be slow. Otherwise, it seems natural that you'd want to continue making the car faster.
So to the original poster, be happy with a compromise car, or pick one thing to excel at.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evil Drew M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


The best answer I can come up with for his question would be a Corvette Z06.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sscguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Driven, not to criticize or anything, but I have a friend who's competitive in bracket races with his CRX, and he's running consistent 18s. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's exactly what bracket racing is for. You could drive your mom's 78 Ford station wagon to 22's, and as long as you did it consistently, you'd be competetive, too.

How interesting would bracket time trialing be on a road course...&lt;pondering&gt;...considering the fact that in w2w racing, being consistently fast over the duration of the race is often more important than being able to put down a single fast lap with several good enough ones.

Darren, who's sorry to hijack the thread, but in a thoughtfully pondering mood...

 

NASA out on the West Coast has just an event. You pick a time, then go out and be consistent for a bunch of laps, with others on the track at the same time.

Sorta like bracket drag racing with cross traffic.

 

I understand that bracket racing is competitive according to what you think you'll run, however, maybe it's just me, but if I were racing, I wouldn't feel like guessing my time and then trying to make that; rather, I'd be trying to go as fast as possible. Especially in road racing/tracking, I'm about improving myself, trying to do my best. You are correct in that consistency can oftentimes win over one or two great laps, but you still have to be consistently fast. I know they have the timed rallies everywhere in which you're supposed to make some specified average speed as well. That sounds like a possibly fun activity, but it doesn't sound like racing to me. While we're pondering all this, anyone have a good definition of racing? Maybe I'm thinking of it incorrectly.

Grumpy, the thing out west you're talking about, is that how the NASA time trials are run?

 

I agree... if you just want to do all forms for just fun then sure you can build any car for that. But... if you want to be competitive I really think you need to pick a sport and stick with and start building for it.

As others have said the differences in setup are extreme and will require frequent changes to setup for waht your in the mood for that day.

For the most extreme example for a true FWD drag car you want all of your weight over the front wheels to help them stick, you'd want a solid rear axle and extremely stiff suspension out back to keep weight transfer down... and the list goes on. For a road car you'd want your weight evenly distributed for better balance, you'd want 4 wheel independent suspension, etc.

The differences in setup for the different types of racing mentioned are just to extreme imo to try and do it all and be competitive... again if your doing it just for fun then what the hell go for it... my vote would be on a CRX for a muti-faceted race car

 

Drew is correct - you'll never build a car to be perfect for all types of events.

However, if you plan well, you can certainly have fun at all types of events.

I'd think a 94-97 Miata R package would do nicely. Makes a decent C-Stock autocrosser. Proven quick and reliable track car. And having moderate power and LSD, it should be a decent bracket racer. All this, and you get to leave it bone stock + roll bar.

If you insist on building something, I'd do a Super Bettle. Spend $3000 on motor and tranny and you have a very fast car. If you snoop around, you can actually find some decent suspension parts, so it might make a decent Street Mod autocrosser and track toy.

 

Any pics of the Super Bettle? I've never heard of it, is it something like the Miata-powered Locost?

 

Kyeborad &gt; me.

Super Beetle

 

Ohhhh, of course, I'm retarded. That would be a fun track car, come to think of it...

 

Go rearwheel drive...

Agreed Z06
3rd Gen RX-7
240 SX
V8 Miata
...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evil Drew M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well doesn't that sort of defeat the goal of having a car that fits well in all 4 categories?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Why? you don't change settings based on the track? what about weather? I know i do... I adjust shock settings, tyre pressures, and at times, alignment...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The best answer I can come up with for his question would be a Corvette Z06.</TD></TR></TABLE>
agreed.

Except the average person can't afford to stuff a Zo6 into a wall. i vividly remember a thread about "only race a car you can afford tossing into a wall".

 

i say anything with four wheels would be fine for what this guy wants. any car (pinto to corvette) can do any one of the 4 things he wants. if he really cared to excel or be competitive in any sense, thered be no consideration of trying to find a do it all car.

 

http://it2.evaluand.com/recipe.php

Have fun!

K

 

I'd go with a 4th generation Camaro (specifically '98+) .... a good condition one can be found cheaper than a Z06 vette by a factor of four, lots of drag and roadcourse suspension options available, very fun car to drive and behaves nicely on the street and track. Only bad thing about the camaro is working on it.....just changing the stock front dampers for Koni Sport replacement is proving to be a big headache.... definately not as easy as a Tacoma.... Overall though I'd give the Camaro a