You've heard of the Throwaway Corner right?

I know, you all think that it's so easy for me...driving the Integra Type-R...one of the most powerful economy cars ever created.

It's true - I'm able to turn incredible lap times despite errors, and throwing away corners, because the ridiculous horsepower of the Type-R let's me make up for it quite easily just by pushing the throttle harder.

But lately I've grown complacent, and because the excellence of the Type-R is so exceptional, I've actually started to go slower. This is probably something most of you with Type-R's have experienced and worked thru - but bear with me, I'm just a little behind you on the learning curve.

Why is a throwaway corner a throwaway corner?

It could be because of it's place in a sequence where the risk of screwing up a more important corner later dwarfs any possible gain from optimizing this corner. Fair enough. Call it a throwaway. But you still gotta minimize your loss there.

What about the corner that Confounds you. It's not unimportant. It's just uncooperative. You know the kind of corner - everybody struggles with it. To no avail. They even call it a throwaway corner.

Why? I guess it depends on the specific corner. And maybe the car too.

Around here it's Portland's old T3. A long, more than 90 degree, increasing radius kind corner.

My car pushes like a pig thru it from about the 3rd or 4th lap on. Porsche 911's are reportedly loose thru it. And real race cars are fussy and inconsistent.

And nobody seems to fully understand why.

UNTIL NOW!

Thru extreme mental discipline (thinking about it at work), I've hatched a theory. And a reasonable one at that - not just some whacked out cracked out delusion.

I suggest that maybe the average surface grip in T3 is less than in other corners on the track of similar average radius, and that the effect of this is to limit generation of total lateral weight transfer, and hence in the case of cars with extreme weight bias reduce the effectiveness of the roll stiffness bias. The other factor of course is that we won't get optimum camber in such a turn - which needn't affect balance as much as the change in lateral weight transfer distribution.

You may have noticed that fewer top level fwd cars are lifting the inside rear as much. This may be a function of higher total roll stiffness allowed by tire development, and the fact that after a point all you can do is decrease front deflection. But the stiffer car in general might suffer more from corner to corner grip variation, and you might view inside lift to some degree as an indication of the tolerance of the envelope.

Scott, who's thinking out loud...and reminding himself that the compromise matrix is pretty big..."B4...."....."Miss!"...."Doohhh!"...

 

I think of a 'throw away' as a corner in a series which matters less than the ones before and/or after it whereby giving up 2/10ths in the 'throw away' nets a 4/10ths gain elsewhere. One example is 4a at VIR. Giving up just a little in 4a by having a late apex sets you up to carry more speed in 4b, 5 and the rest of the snake and spits you onto the bridge straight a little quicker. I agree that you can't really afford to just "park" it anywhere!

I tend to agree that the FWD pros in Speed WC may be running higher front spring rates than they used to, most likely due to having better tires now. On TV it looks like the dog ain't pissin' anymore, but when you watch corners in person you still see a little day light under the inside rear. Not the 4-6 inches they used to have but the dog is still pissin'. I ran the front of my old ITC civic fairly soft, and on days when the track was hot and the car's understeer was pronounced my inside rear was barely off the ground. On cool days when the car was hooked up and the pole was mine, onlookers told me my inside rear looked like it was 12" off the ground


Modified by Track rat at 12:46 PM 7/13/2004


Modified by Track rat at 12:50 PM 7/13/2004

 

i don't know scott. my car pushes like a pig only when grip increases. reduce grip and it becomes a tail happy monster. ever try the e-brake?

nate

 

Nate,

I think that that can happen too.

Scott, for whom it all comes down to where you're at, where you're going, and what's in your way...I rarely know all three...

 

do they let you walk around on course between sessions? if so, you could very easily figure out if the grip is greater or lesser in that corner relative to the rest of circuit. a chunk of old tire, a lead weight to glue it to, and a string scale that will pull it with out "topping out" is all you need. why guess? data aq cheap and dirty.

nate