Building a car, engine questions for specific classes....
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From: Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Building a car, engine questions for specific classes....
Im building a track bitch 95 Teg LS that I may end up entering into next seasons NASA H1 class.
Ive read through the rules quite a few times, but I need some others' views.
Since its a track bitch, I cannot justify spending a crapload of $ on it. I got the car in-trade for a turbo manifold, so theres not much there.
Im building the cage myself, etc. so there wont be much $ there.
The car came engine-less. I have enough H series parts for two cars, so Im pretty sure Im sticking w/H series, because Im too poor to buy a B series swap just for a track bitch.
So, is an h23Vtec legal for NASA H1? I dont need a lecture on wieghts etc, just asking if itll pass. All Honda parts, just different combo than what Honda produced...
Heres some pics:
Chrome OwnZ you!
Its already got track bitch written all over it!
Stripping for cage/paint
Ive read through the rules quite a few times, but I need some others' views.
Since its a track bitch, I cannot justify spending a crapload of $ on it. I got the car in-trade for a turbo manifold, so theres not much there.
Im building the cage myself, etc. so there wont be much $ there.
The car came engine-less. I have enough H series parts for two cars, so Im pretty sure Im sticking w/H series, because Im too poor to buy a B series swap just for a track bitch.
So, is an h23Vtec legal for NASA H1? I dont need a lecture on wieghts etc, just asking if itll pass. All Honda parts, just different combo than what Honda produced...
Heres some pics:
Chrome OwnZ you!
Its already got track bitch written all over it!
Stripping for cage/paint
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From: Raleigh, NC
Re: Building a car, engine questions for specific classes.... (Tinker219)
Reading the rulebook should be step #1
BTW, if you "cannot justify spending a crapload of $" you shouldn't be considering racing.
BTW, if you "cannot justify spending a crapload of $" you shouldn't be considering racing.
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From: Future Site of the Runoffs, USA
Re: Building a car, engine questions for specific classes.... (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Toss a LS motor in there and run H4</TD></TR></TABLE>
sell the H motor stuff, buy a cheap stock motor, and like .rj said, run H4.
sell the H motor stuff, buy a cheap stock motor, and like .rj said, run H4.
Thread Starter
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From: Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Re: Building a car, engine questions for specific classes.... (JeffS)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JeffS »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Reading the rulebook should be step #1
BTW, if you "cannot justify spending a crapload of $" you shouldn't be considering racing. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Id like to have under $10k involved in the buildup of this project. Racing fees, etc are not included.
I did read the rules, 16.3 of Hybrid basically states that top to bottom must be constructed of Honda parts(except fasteners).
Would a B20 qualify in H4? I have one sitting here, just nothing else to go with it(trans, axles, etc).
Its an LS with a bigger bore, is why I ask(prolly not, worth asking though).
BTW, if you "cannot justify spending a crapload of $" you shouldn't be considering racing. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Id like to have under $10k involved in the buildup of this project. Racing fees, etc are not included.
I did read the rules, 16.3 of Hybrid basically states that top to bottom must be constructed of Honda parts(except fasteners).
Would a B20 qualify in H4? I have one sitting here, just nothing else to go with it(trans, axles, etc).
Its an LS with a bigger bore, is why I ask(prolly not, worth asking though).
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: Building a car, engine questions for specific classes.... (Tinker219)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tinker219 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Id like to have under $10k involved in the buildup of this project. </TD></TR></TABLE>
You could have a kick *** H4 car for that price, especially if you can build the cage yourself
You could have a kick *** H4 car for that price, especially if you can build the cage yourself
Thread Starter
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From: Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Re: Building a car, engine questions for specific classes.... (.RJ)
ya, should be do-able. Will the B20 qualify? I know in non-Hybrid rules you are allowed .040 overboring. The B20 is around that much larger than the B18s, so would this qualify to run in H4?
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From: Jasma
Re: Building a car, engine questions for specific classes.... (Tinker219)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tinker219 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ya, should be do-able. Will the B20 qualify? I know in non-Hybrid rules you are allowed .040 overboring. The B20 is around that much larger than the B18s, so would this qualify to run in H4? </TD></TR></TABLE>
no
no
Thread Starter
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From: Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Re: Building a car, engine questions for specific classes.... (El Pollo Diablo)
k, thank you.
If I go H1, is the H23Vtec combo legal? Im just trying to weigh my options, not committing to anything quite yet...
If I go H1, is the H23Vtec combo legal? Im just trying to weigh my options, not committing to anything quite yet...
Thread Starter
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From: Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Re: Building a car, engine questions for specific classes.... (El Pollo Diablo)
Ive been known to do things "that cant be done" for little $. I dont need lecturing please, just looking for some intracasies that arent covered in the rules.
I do appreciate your help though Diablo...
I do appreciate your help though Diablo...
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From: Jasma
Re: Building a car, engine questions for specific classes.... (Tinker219)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tinker219 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ive been known to do things "that cant be done" for little $. I dont need lecturing please, just looking for some intracasies that arent covered in the rules.
I do appreciate your help though Diablo...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Pretty much all the questions you've asked so far HAVE been covered in the HC rules though.
I do appreciate your help though Diablo...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Pretty much all the questions you've asked so far HAVE been covered in the HC rules though.
Thread Starter
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From: Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Re: Building a car, engine questions for specific classes.... (El Pollo Diablo)
Ok, so if Im interpreting the rules properly, it is legal. Thank you. Now Im off to ponder powertrain choices.
After seeing the video in this thread, H4 will probably be my goal...
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=923989
After seeing the video in this thread, H4 will probably be my goal...
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=923989
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From: One by one, the penguins steal my sanity.
Re: Building a car, engine questions for specific classes.... (Tinker219)
The H series would be legal if built to the H1/hybrid rules.
But, you'd be better off selling/trading all the H stuff and putting a stock LS motor together for H4. Or trading all of it for a pre-assembled race car.
But, you'd be better off selling/trading all the H stuff and putting a stock LS motor together for H4. Or trading all of it for a pre-assembled race car.
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From: Montreal, QC, Canada
Re: Building a car, engine questions for specific classes.... (Crack Monkey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
But, you'd be better off selling/trading all the H stuff and putting a stock LS motor together for H4. Or trading all of it for a pre-assembled race car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
And here's one for sale now: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=915577
But, you'd be better off selling/trading all the H stuff and putting a stock LS motor together for H4. Or trading all of it for a pre-assembled race car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
And here's one for sale now: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=915577
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From: Jasma
Re: Building a car, engine questions for specific classes.... (jsi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jsi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And here's one for sale now: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=915577</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's an H3 GSR...
And here's one for sale now: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=915577</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's an H3 GSR...
Thread Starter
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From: Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Re: Building a car, engine questions for specific classes.... (Crack Monkey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Or trading all of it for a pre-assembled race car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
What fun is that? For me, the fun isnt only romping around the track(ok, a lot of it is), but its building the car. Plus, Im very picky, if I see a weld that I dont like on someone else' car, Im going to grind it off and fix it.
If there is one thing Ive learned, is its MUCH easier to start from scratch, than to fix a fucked up car.
That H3 Teg is pretty killer though!
Just for ***** and giggles, what do you have into your efforts($) El Pollo Diablo? I guess Im struggling to see where I could spend even $10k in my situation w/out being stupid...
Heres what I plan:
Car: $550 retail price trade for manifold
Suspension $1000 -Konis/GC
Brakes: $300 Accord calipers/Prelude rotors, race pads
Engine/Trans: $1500engine(valve train upgrade, LS engine), $1200 ITR Trans.
Header/Exhaust: $500 in materials
Cage: $500 in materials
Management: Hondata S100 $400(tops)
Wheels/Tires(1 set of tires): $1000 Kuhmo V70 or something, havent decided
Misc. Safety equipment: $700(helmet, suit)
Mist. parts: $500.
= $7650.
Ofcourse, it always costs more, but most of this stuff I already have in my possession.
I have no clue what it costs to actually run in the series, get lincensed, etc, but thats not included in car build-up.
Upon thinking, and listening to everyone, Im going to build to H4 specs. I know I could build a competitve car for H1, but the car isnt the issue....the driver is. I am lets say, a lil "inexperienced" when it comes to racing. Start small, go bigger later.
What fun is that? For me, the fun isnt only romping around the track(ok, a lot of it is), but its building the car. Plus, Im very picky, if I see a weld that I dont like on someone else' car, Im going to grind it off and fix it.
If there is one thing Ive learned, is its MUCH easier to start from scratch, than to fix a fucked up car.
That H3 Teg is pretty killer though!
Just for ***** and giggles, what do you have into your efforts($) El Pollo Diablo? I guess Im struggling to see where I could spend even $10k in my situation w/out being stupid...
Heres what I plan:
Car: $550 retail price trade for manifold
Suspension $1000 -Konis/GC
Brakes: $300 Accord calipers/Prelude rotors, race pads
Engine/Trans: $1500engine(valve train upgrade, LS engine), $1200 ITR Trans.
Header/Exhaust: $500 in materials
Cage: $500 in materials
Management: Hondata S100 $400(tops)
Wheels/Tires(1 set of tires): $1000 Kuhmo V70 or something, havent decided
Misc. Safety equipment: $700(helmet, suit)
Mist. parts: $500.
= $7650.
Ofcourse, it always costs more, but most of this stuff I already have in my possession.
I have no clue what it costs to actually run in the series, get lincensed, etc, but thats not included in car build-up.
Upon thinking, and listening to everyone, Im going to build to H4 specs. I know I could build a competitve car for H1, but the car isnt the issue....the driver is. I am lets say, a lil "inexperienced" when it comes to racing. Start small, go bigger later.
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: Building a car, engine questions for specific classes.... (Tinker219)
Unless you are running H1 the brakes, valvetrain, trans are not legal.
Pick up a B18B drivetrain for $1000, have the head worked over ($850 or so). You'll need 2 sets of wheels/tires most likely, and will probably have alot more than $500 in "misc parts".
Cost per weekend is probably about $1000 when you factor everything in, except for busted ****.
Pick up a B18B drivetrain for $1000, have the head worked over ($850 or so). You'll need 2 sets of wheels/tires most likely, and will probably have alot more than $500 in "misc parts".
Cost per weekend is probably about $1000 when you factor everything in, except for busted ****.
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From: Jasma
Re: Building a car, engine questions for specific classes.... (Tinker219)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tinker219 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Just for ***** and giggles, what do you have into your efforts($) El Pollo Diablo? I guess Im struggling to see where I could spend even $10k in my situation w/out being stupid...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
A lot more than $10k, not too many stock parts on my car.
Some additional things to what you listed
bearings/bushings
adjustable upper A-arms
swaybars
seat
gages
ECU
Injectors
cams
cam gears
T-belt
Oil cooler
radiator
battery
CF hood
motor mounts
intake
splitter
cut off switch
fire extingusher/fire system
clutch
flywheel
FD
spare set of wheels/tires
rain tires/wheels
spark plugs
headwork
valve springs
retainers
headgasket
LSD if j00r tranny doesnt have one
Lexan windows/etc
rear spoiler
etc etc etc...it adds up
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tinker219 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Upon thinking, and listening to everyone, Im going to build to H4 specs. I know I could build a competitve car for H1, but the car isnt the issue....the driver is. I am lets say, a lil "inexperienced" when it comes to racing. Start small, go bigger later.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just for ***** and giggles, what do you have into your efforts($) El Pollo Diablo? I guess Im struggling to see where I could spend even $10k in my situation w/out being stupid...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
A lot more than $10k, not too many stock parts on my car.
Some additional things to what you listed
bearings/bushings
adjustable upper A-arms
swaybars
seat
gages
ECU
Injectors
cams
cam gears
T-belt
Oil cooler
radiator
battery
CF hood
motor mounts
intake
splitter
cut off switch
fire extingusher/fire system
clutch
flywheel
FD
spare set of wheels/tires
rain tires/wheels
spark plugs
headwork
valve springs
retainers
headgasket
LSD if j00r tranny doesnt have one
Lexan windows/etc
rear spoiler
etc etc etc...it adds up
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tinker219 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Upon thinking, and listening to everyone, Im going to build to H4 specs. I know I could build a competitve car for H1, but the car isnt the issue....the driver is. I am lets say, a lil "inexperienced" when it comes to racing. Start small, go bigger later.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
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From: Traverse City, Michigan, USA
Re: Building a car, engine questions for specific classes.... (El Pollo Diablo)
I have everything except:
swaybars
CF hood
cut off switch
fire extingusher/fire system
clutch
spare set of wheels/tires
rain tires/wheels
Lexan windows/etc.
Trans
Shift linkages
Axles
I have some B18A long blocks, Ill just freshen one of those up.
Im going to hold out on, and find an ITR trans, that way the gearing is perfect, and LSD is there.
So ya, I guess that last bit easily took up the $10k.
swaybars
CF hood
cut off switch
fire extingusher/fire system
clutch
spare set of wheels/tires
rain tires/wheels
Lexan windows/etc.
Trans
Shift linkages
Axles
I have some B18A long blocks, Ill just freshen one of those up.
Im going to hold out on, and find an ITR trans, that way the gearing is perfect, and LSD is there.
So ya, I guess that last bit easily took up the $10k.
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From: Central Florida, USA
While I'm the same with you that I like to build my own stuff, I on the other hand would not pass up a already well built, track proven car. A totally new car still has to go through the racing teeth'n. And as far as 10k, if you don't count your time, I've haven't ever seen a well built car (not with the best of everything) be at or under 10k when you add up all the misc stuff. In either case, good luck. Racing is the most fun thing I've ever done!
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From: Middleburg Heights, OH
I would really consider buying a prebuilt car. I have no road racing experience, but I've read so many times about people starting off in road racing by building their own car, and they've all regretted it.
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From: Future Site of the Runoffs, USA
Re: Building a car, engine questions for specific classes.... (Tinker219)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tinker219 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have everything except:
swaybars
</TD></TR></TABLE>
$250
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
CF hood
</TD></TR></TABLE>
$500
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
cut off switch
</TD></TR></TABLE>
$50
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
fire extingusher/fire system
</TD></TR></TABLE>
$400
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
clutch
</TD></TR></TABLE>
$400
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
spare set of wheels/tires
</TD></TR></TABLE>
$1000
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
rain tires/wheels
[QUOTE]
$1000
[QUOTE]
Lexan windows/etc.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
$750 ??
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Trans
</TD></TR></TABLE>
$600?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Shift linkages
</TD></TR></TABLE>
no idea
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Axles
</TD></TR></TABLE>
$300 ?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have some B18A long blocks, Ill just freshen one of those up.
Im going to hold out on, and find an ITR trans, that way the gearing is perfect, and LSD is there.
So ya, I guess that last bit easily took up the $10k.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
lets add this up shall we?
$5250 on top of your already planned $7500 or so. wow, we have a $13k car already. tack on a few hundred bucks for vinyl, at least a grand for unexpected costs, and you're $5000 over budget already.
what are you trying to do? are you trying to win, or just get out there? the cost difference between the two is quite large. be realistic, you can't even build a front running Spec Miata for what you have budgeted for H1. if you want to be COMPETITIVE for 10k or less, stick with something like ITB/ITC, or whatever is comparable in HC (H4/H5 i'm guessing).
it really sounds like all you want to do is build the car, not race it.
swaybars
</TD></TR></TABLE>
$250
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
CF hood
</TD></TR></TABLE>
$500
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
cut off switch
</TD></TR></TABLE>
$50
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
fire extingusher/fire system
</TD></TR></TABLE>
$400
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
clutch
</TD></TR></TABLE>
$400
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
spare set of wheels/tires
</TD></TR></TABLE>
$1000
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
rain tires/wheels
[QUOTE]
$1000
[QUOTE]
Lexan windows/etc.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
$750 ??
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Trans
</TD></TR></TABLE>
$600?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Shift linkages
</TD></TR></TABLE>
no idea
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Axles
</TD></TR></TABLE>
$300 ?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have some B18A long blocks, Ill just freshen one of those up.
Im going to hold out on, and find an ITR trans, that way the gearing is perfect, and LSD is there.
So ya, I guess that last bit easily took up the $10k.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
lets add this up shall we?
$5250 on top of your already planned $7500 or so. wow, we have a $13k car already. tack on a few hundred bucks for vinyl, at least a grand for unexpected costs, and you're $5000 over budget already.
what are you trying to do? are you trying to win, or just get out there? the cost difference between the two is quite large. be realistic, you can't even build a front running Spec Miata for what you have budgeted for H1. if you want to be COMPETITIVE for 10k or less, stick with something like ITB/ITC, or whatever is comparable in HC (H4/H5 i'm guessing).
it really sounds like all you want to do is build the car, not race it.