so I didnt get to race this weekend. In fact, I didnt even make to to the track to watch the Honda Challenge race. I did get to the track Sunday after the battle was over. This is what I heard:

Friday durring practice:

Team Double R racing blows their motor. No racing for them this weekend.

Saturday:

Andy Hope hits Derek Stevens from behind

Finishing positions:
Derek Stevens
Varo Akopyan
Andy Hope

Sunday:

Derek hits Varo
Hope nails a miata
Derek adds another ruined k20a to our Honda Challenge list of blown K20s

Finishing postions:
Derek Stevens
Varo Akopyan
Sam Higashi
Dennis Caco?


I must say that this HC bumper car fest is getting rediculous. I do not want to participate in it. I havent been in contact this year but look at me, Ive only competed in 3 out of 10 races this year sucks. Anyway, arent you guys getting tired of body work? Please lets try to keep this sport clean. We have such nice cars on the track, I dont want to have to bolt some old tired around my car to keep it from turning into a pile of metal on wheels


I'm joking yet I'm being serious. It's unfortunate. What are you gonna do!


oh btw, I'm still impressed with Dennis Caco. Another couple of races in the belt and clean points earned!!! on his way to the championship.

 

You got the results wrong for saturday Varo Won saturday Andy 2nd and Derek 3rd
And derek lost his motor not Cuz it broke he lost water and overheated and it seized on him on the last lap. He still managed to WIN . Good Job to all the racers.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SBE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Saturday:

Andy Hope hits Derek Stevens from behind

Finishing positions:
Derek Stevens
Varo Akopyan
Andy Hope

Sunday:

Derek hits Varo
Hope nails a miata
Derek adds another ruined k20a to our Honda Challenge list of blown K20s

Finishing postions:
Derek Stevens
Varo Akopyan
Sam Higashi
Dennis Caco?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

I got all excited....."Drama".....

Then I read about...contact.....

Then I think about Warren's FS/RIP thread....

Then I think about how one of my front fenders looks like it belongs on Warren's kaa....

Scott, who thinks that surely if I buy enough bling, all that body damage stuff will be taking place well behind me...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITAIntegraLS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You got the results wrong for saturday Varo Won saturday Andy 2nd and Derek 3rd
And derek lost his motor not Cuz it broke he lost water and overheated and it seized on him on the last lap. He still managed to WIN . Good Job to all the racers.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


Thanks for the correction. Whatever either way since I didnt get to run with them

I also didnt want to get into the details of the Hondata/Prototype race team. Its their business and not mine, but thanks for clerifying his issues.

 

Why didn't you or Kiwi race?

 

The results for the Saturday race were adjusted for the contact between Andy & Myself to:
1. Varo 2. Me 3. Andy

It's not like we try to hit each other. I don't actually see any driving I would consider agressive. In the time I've been racing (4 years) there has only been one contact which I would say was my fault and that was on Sunday between myself and Varo. On Saturday Andy hit me from behind but it was a complicated situation with a number of lapped cars in front of us, and I don't blame Andy for hitting me. On Sunday we had the closest race for some time, with the lead swapping between myself, Andy and Varo. I hit Varo from behind on turn 4, which ultimately cooked my engine. The hood shifted backwards and moved the radiator cap 1/8 of a turn, so that the cooling system lost pressure. I noticed my oil temperatures were about 20 degrees hotter than normal, but the water stayed at 205-207. On the last lap I saw smoke from my engine before turn 8, so I backed off until the front straight, where I switched off the engine and coasted through the finish. At this point the water temperature went up to 265 - eeekk! Haven't looked at it yet but I would guess it's somewhere between pistons/rings/bore gone and pistons/rings/bores/bearings/block/head warped/oil coked.

Lessons learnt: don't trust your water temperature once you lose water. I'll probably install a master warning light on the temp guage and put another water temp down lower in the block (I have one spare temp guage). Coolant pressure might also be worth while. It's a pity because that is the first engine I have ever damaged racing. The radiator cap / hood problem was just waiting to happen - there was a mark on the hood where it had been hitting previously. Leasson learnt: details matter.

 

Sorry to hear about the engine Derek, good to hear about the win, but bad about the engine. Hopefully I'll get to see you guys again before the end of the year.

Austin

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SBE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Sunday:

Derek hits Varo
Hope nails a miata
Derek adds another ruined k20a to our Honda Challenge list of blown K20s

Finishing postions:
Derek Stevens
Varo Akopyan
Sam Higashi
Dennis Caco?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think Sundays posted overall results after the race were......

Derek Stevens
Varo Akopan
Sam Higashi
Dennis Caco
Paul Bloomberg H2
John Tecce H4

Paul





Modified by PaulB at 4:18 PM 7/13/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rickpeak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why didn't you or Kiwi race?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well I probably could have... All I had to do was drop in my spare motor... However, After the costs of Re building my good 4.9 Gearbox which was pretty well shot after Buttonwillow (Saturday). (We now have (10) Ten new 4.9 B18 final drives available if anyone needs one) as well as refurbishing my 4.75 Gearbox and then the Cost ... still mounting! of building Shawns new K-20 motor. As well as my New <U>SQUEAKY CLEAN </U>K-Killer B20! I thought it might be a good idea to give our Team Owners Check Book a break for a little while longer... I also have a (Probably misguided) sense of loyalty to my team mate. We were both running 11 and 12 in the series and I had always said that I would not run my car unless both cars were capable of running. What happens at the track is a different matter. But I always wanted to enter both cars and run as a team.
So with all that, and the time I have been spending on putting our 2005 World Challenge proposals together. As well as another deal, which will benifit Honda Challenge and Hopefully I will be able to anounce all the details in a few days,
I guess I'm just worn out! However we will be testing both cars at California Speedway TCRA Event on July 30,31,m and Aug 1. In preparation for our big "Come back" at Mid Ohio!

Kiwi

Ps: K-20 5.0 Final Drives available in a week.

 

Ok, took the engine out tonight. There was zero water in the block and about a quart in the radiator. Oil telltail shows 295 and water 265.

Everything looks surprisingly good. The bores have scores where each ring end gap is, but they are fairly light (you can't feel them with a fingernail, so probably would come of with a very light hone). The rings and pistons look OK too. However the middle cylinder head bolts were almost loose (&lt;30 lb-ft), and the bores are all way out of round. Have not measured the block nor head but would guess they need to be milled. Have not measured the line bores but would guess they are OK. All bearings were good - Neo oil must be good stuff. Guess I've now got the job of finding 0.25mm oversized JDM pistons and rings.

I had blown a bit of oil from the breather over the lower engine firewall, exhaust, axles, brakes (!) and wheels. Looking at my splitter, it has an oil spray pattern which shows that the oil was on it before it parted company with my car. Conclusion is that the radiator cap was loose and engine over-heated some time before I made contact with Varo. I must have done 8 laps in 102 degree weather with an oil cooled engine.

 

Hey derek this is allen from epic.
Glad to see the motor is still good. Ill keep ya posted on the OS pistons you need.

sounds like i missed another fun filled weekend. ill make it out to one of these eventually damnit!!!...

 

Well Derek...considering what happened, it looks like the engine is still alive...somewhat. Good luck on the rebuild.

Austin

 

This was some hot and very fun weekend. I wish there was more H1 cars on the fild for more fun under the sun. The race was very close most of the time with the top 3 guys ( Varo, Derek, Andy). Looks like we have a long summer a head of us, Edik dont worry man some time under that car and we can get it up in 1st place again. 2 years of racing on the same motor was really good, and if we can get a nother 2 from it again that will be great.

 

to Derek for Sunday's win...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KIWI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> However we will be testing both cars at California Speedway TCRA Event on July 30,31,m and Aug 1. In preparation for our big "Come back" at Mid Ohio!

Kiwi
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I will so be there to watch. I love TCRA. Unfortunately, the cage installation will begin on my car that weekend, so I won't be able to do time trials (unless I get a Hertz/Enterprise Time Trialer). Let me know if you guys want some help in the pits/garage.

Darren

 

Yea, neo oils awsome.. i use it too...

 

This is kind of off topic but, can one of you guys PM me with a link to the thread where they were trying to get aftermarket rods to be leagalized, per the k series motors blowing up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SBE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
oh btw, I'm still impressed with Dennis Caco. Another couple of races in the belt and clean points earned!!! on his way to the championship.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks!

The crew, Sam, Lee, Tim, and Gabe know how to keep the car together... and without 'em I wouldn't be racing. THEY are the reason why we're doing so well.

Now if that damn driver could learn how to drive then...


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jon V &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is kind of off topic but, can one of you guys PM me with a link ...</TD></TR></TABLE>

This one?
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=890505

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D.CACO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This one?
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=890505</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thank You

 

With all the drama over motors, how come no one has tried mating an F20 or F22C to an RSX tranny? They both spin the "wrong" way, and per current rules, an F-powered H1 car would only have to weigh 2200lbs.

Unless I'm missing something?
Hybrids:
Hybrids with motor codes other than "D" (single cam) or "K": 2200 lbs.
Hybrids with "D" (single cam): 2000 lbs.
Hybrids with "K" series motor: 2350 lbs.

A big Honda bike motor would work pretty well too; with mods allowed you could get 200+whp without too much difficulty, and you get the zingy 6-speed sequential. Of course, with only 150lbs. of ballast allowed, you'd make a heavy lead exhaust system and get a killer CG!

If none of that sounds good, why not have Cosworth or somebody build you a nice race head from scratch.

Oh well, at least they got this in for '04:
f) Cockpit and or remote adjustable spoiler controls are prohibited




Modified by jzr at 1:28 AM 7/16/2004

 

Jason, the big problem with F motor on FWD cars is the motor has to sit laterally. This means trouble for the motor mount as if F20C mounted laterally means the motor mount facing forward have nowhere to mount.

 

So how long would that rule loophole last? While you're at it, there's a few more grey areas:

- A hybrid is built 'with components sourced from another model. market or generation' - so swap the whole S2000 powertrain and go RWD. Not a little amount of work involved there.
- There's no maximum engine relocation distance so an engine swap could go in the back of the car. Saw a early civic with an engine in the back at the beginning of the year.
- Perform the above and keep the front engine. Heavy, but 8 cylinders and 4WD should negate the weight disadvantage.

BTW the K20A makes more power than the F20C (and I don't let the S2000 guys forget it).

 

What's a loophole other than some easy wins nobody's taken advantage of? Who isn't to say that it isn't a loophole but actually the intent of the rulemakers? I'm no good at reading minds, but I can read a ruleset.

The K-series are only able to make better numbers (for however indeterminate a duration) than their F-series counterparts by virtue of their head and i-Vtec. It's my understanding the F-series bottom end is actually better suited to racing with its beefier internals and more favorable rod/stroke ratio.

Since the cylinder head is completely "free" in a hybrid, the K series has no advantages over the F in a proper implementation. Unless the K block is a whole lot lighter?

Oh well. I just can't wait to see what they say when I show up with my F22C powered S800!




Modified by jzr at 8:25 AM 7/16/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jzr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Since the cylinder head is completely "free" in a hybrid, the K series has no advantages over the F in a proper implementation.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

the s2000 cannot modify the cylinder head unless the rules have changed recently. The s2000 and NSX are only allowed partial hybrid modifications for H1, not all.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

the s2000 cannot modify the cylinder head unless the rules have changed recently. The s2000 and NSX are only allowed partial hybrid modifications for H1, not all. </TD></TR></TABLE>I'm not talking about using an S2000, I'm talking about using its motor with an RSX tranny in a different car. Where does it say you can't do that?
Hybrids with motor codes other than "D" (single cam) or "K": 2200 lbs.

If you went nuts could you fit an NSX motor in a bigger car like a recent Prelude? Hmmm...