I was at my first auto-x today...i was running 195/60/15 shitty stock tires (michelin asx or something)...36psi front and 38psi rear..hnr sports with kyb agx(set 1front 8rear) and s/t front and rear swaybars...the question is, when I'm accelerating through a corner, my tires squeel/spin ALOT...as this happens my car is understeering slightly but i'm still able to stay on the line...is this slowing me down? Should i only accelerate at the threshold of the tires grip? i was watching the faster cars out there and their tires don't seem to spin at all..atleast i can't hear them squeeling..any suggestions?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by azian21485 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the question is, when I'm accelerating through a corner, my tires squeel/spin ALOT...as this happens my car is understeering slightly but i'm still able to stay on the line...is this slowing me down? Should i only accelerate at the threshold of the tires grip?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not considering tire wear/over heating issues, a generalized rule of thumb is to keep accelerating as early and as much as you can until you can't keep the line anymore. If you are doing something where getting the fastest time is the goal, no matter how good your line may be, that by itself will not get you the fastest time. The car has to also be driven near its limit. Only then you can be sure that you are going about as fast as possible through there. Some tires scream real loud, while others virtually don't scream at all in comparison under the same circumstances. So tire squeal, because it varies so much, is definitely not a good way to gauge where the limit is. A good way to know for sure that you have reached and passed the limit depends on whether you can still hold the intended line, or not. If you can, then odds are that you can still go a little faster. I hope this answered your question. Good luck!

 

You may have answered your own question:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i was watching the faster cars out there ...i can't hear them squeeling...</TD></TR></TABLE>


1) Sometimes slower is faster. Squealing tires indicates you are going too fast in a place you should be going slow.

2) The line that allows you to turn the steering wheel less is *ALWAYS* the fastest line.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
2) The line that allows you to turn the steering wheel less is *ALWAYS* the fastest line.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah, thats so true, the quickest way from one point to another is always a straight line, so if u come into a corner looking ahead and thinking about where u want the car to end up coming out, u have a better chance of being on a good line. as far as tire squealing goes, the more u turn the wheel, the more youll squeal, so try a mellower line a first

 

the line i try to take is going from outside and cut in at apex and accelerate..i'll end up at the outside on the other side of the turn...so basically i try to take sort of a wide turn?

 

[QUOTE=Hracer] Some tires scream real loud, while others virtually don't scream at all in comparison under the same circumstances. So tire squeal, because it varies so much, is definitely not a good way to gauge where the limit is.QUOTE]

very true some tires i have noticed that will squeal even if you are going slow.. its just mostly how they give on a tight turn.. The faster Guys that you saw maybe next time go check out their Tires see what they are runnin

 

Ride with a good auto-xer.

195/60/15 tires have to go, if they are squeeling that bad then you are going too fast and beyond their limits.

My best runs, time wise, usually feel slow. Today at the SCCA Atlanta region event the runs that felt fast were, but not as fast as when I took it smooth and easy with a touch of hold on I can make it Plus Josh really helped out by holding the car in second gear cause the bumpy *** parking lot was knocking it out of gear (at least we hope that's why it kept popping out of 2nd). Honda teamwork at it's finest. Josh ran his fastest clean run driving with one hand on the wheel and the other holding it in 2nd...that's impressive!

48.0 seconds was my best run on some old *** V700 215/50/13's can't wait to toast them and get some real tires=Hoosiers.

 

Before anything else. Great question! This means your are willing to learn and not above asking for help. I will try to help as much as I can without not ever seeing you drive, or for that matter, not knowing you or your car at all...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by azian21485 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I was at my first auto-x today...i was running 195/60/15 shitty stock tires (michelin asx or something)...36psi front and 38psi rear.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I would suggest marking the sidewalls of your tires with some chalk. Mark the area where the tread stops and the sidewall begins to see exactly how much "roll-over" you are getting. Most tires have tiny triangles that point out the limit of where and "scrubbing" should occur. If you go past this mark your tires are underinflated for autocross purposes. Assuming you're driving one of those front wheel drive honda-mobiles, my first impression is that you will need about 42lbs in the front and leave the rears about the same.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by azian21485 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> hnr sports with kyb agx(set 1front 8rear) and s/t front and rear swaybars... </TD></TR></TABLE>

All this means to me is that your car handles a bit better then a stock car and you're probably running in a Street Touring Class. This is a great class to start in, since you'll be more on par with your competition without having to go out and buy another set of rims and R-compound tires. Other then that, your modificatitions mean very little since this was your first autocross.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by azian21485 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> ...the question is, when I'm accelerating through a corner, my tires squeel/spin ALOT...as this happens my car is understeering slightly but i'm still able to stay on the line...is this slowing me down? Should i only accelerate at the threshold of the tires grip? i was watching the faster cars out there and their tires don't seem to spin at all..atleast i can't hear them squeeling..any suggestions? </TD></TR></TABLE>

How tight of a corner?... all corners, just tight corners?
A little bit of slip angle is OK whether it be understeer or oversteer. You become slower when the slip angle becomes too great, where if you were without any slip angle, you'd be faster. Does that make sense?
Ideally it is better to be without any slip angle in tight/slow corners... starting out. A little bit of trail braking is OK, but try braking straight, and rolling onto the throttle as you unwind the wheel. You may have heard this before. Imagine a tight string attached to your hand and your foot... as you unwind the wheel, you'll be able to roll on the gas.

Squeeling, like HRacer said, "...is definitely not a good way to gauge where the limit is." So try not to compare yourself with other drivers. R-compound tires and even Falken Azenis tend not to make much noise... and are in a different ballpark.

Don't rush into changing anything. Try adjusting the tire pressures by adding some air to the fronts, and try being smooth on the go pedal in turns. Remember you can only use 100% of the grip in your tires. If you are using 90% in turning, there is only 10% left for accelerating... ie unwind the wheel, as you apply the throttle.
The only thing better tires will help with is raising the limits. The same driving principle applies, so no need to go out and buy the expense rubber until you've learned the basics first.

Seat time and Ride along with instructors. It will answer many of the questions that you have.

Hope some of this helped. Good luck and enjoy.

 

thanks for all the replys guys i'm learning alot..and emwavey they squeel through all corners wether large radius or small radius

 

after only 1 event, i wouldn't worry about it. like others said:

-dont worry about the squealing
-raise your pressure to about 42 in the front

i'd recommend working on your consistency first, and then worrying about the tires later. soft sidewall tires will do nothing but hurt your time, but that is not to say good driving won't overcome better tires not being used properly.

ex: just yesterday a guy won his class ("D" class, in my area they have different classes than in the states ) - he had a stock suzuki esteem with 13" tires. his best times were pretty much in line with average times for the next class up.

what's the moral of the story? go to a few more events, learn your car and how to control it more. then, you will really appreciate the need for better tires, and not because the squeal will bother you, but because the lack of grip and flex will bother you.

on a side note, the much of the understeer you felt is most likely a result of the softness of the tires you have. it woudl be greatly reduced with better tires. it would also be reduced with more air presuure

 

emwavey has much better advise than me. I use the "force" and it works for me. I have always loved to drive and it's just a natural gift to know how to go fast. I need to learn how to share that...

One thing that really helps is to memorize the course and visualize where you are going to be to set up for the next turn. Be smooth with your streering and gas inputs, don't fight the car let it do the work.

HAVE FUN!!!

Rising the limits is what makes it fun.


Modified by clemsonhatch at 12:56 PM 7/13/2004


Modified by clemsonhatch at 1:08 PM 7/13/2004