CMP went very well, won one sprint and the enduro and finished 2nd in the other sprint. But as the enduro came to a close, I started to notice that it felt like we had broken a motor mount. Made a note to add it to the next race checklist when I got home, which I did. No worries, I have several spare mounts and bolts laying around.

Yeah. No worries.
I apparently haven't learned my lesson yet. I'm pretty dumb.

My assessment from the driver's seat was mostly correct. There is indeed a mount problem. A bad one.
But its the tranny mount, and it's in fact not the mount at all. The bolts have actually completely stripped out the holes in the aluminum tranny case. All three of them, just sitting loose in their holes. This was actually pretty hard to locate because my first check was visual, and they *looked* fine. It was when I decided to take them out to get a better look at the rear mount that I discovered they weren't actually threaded into anything.

How did this happen? I dunno. The rear mount is fine and the bolt is tight. All of the other mounts are fine as well. Note to 88-91 Civic/CRX folks... Blake says this is something they do occassionally see at OPM on race cars, so keep an eye on this.

But it gets better.
No problems still. Right? It'll be more work than expected and a big pain in the ***, but all I need is a 12x1.25 helicoil kit and I can start the repair.
Right?
Well, partially right. A 12x1.25 helicoil should solve the problem, but I live in Albany, Georgia. It also happens to be a Saturday and a holiday weekend. The only thing open is one of our 2 NAPAs and they don't happen to have anything metric in stock. The nice man behind the counter figures he can get me one sometime Wednesday, but it might be Thursday since they are closed on Monday.

So... Here we go again. Hopefully I can get the parts in hand, drill and tap perfectly straight holes in my tranny case, and be ready to pull out for Barber Friday at lunch. This is all whilst working an already abbreviated and compacted week because Monday is a holiday and we're supposed to head out on Friday.
Assuming nothing else goes wrong, piece of cake.

Scott, who does this **** for fun. Honest. I do.

 

Doh .. that doesn't sound like fun.

All I have to do is change the oil, apply SCCA decals, and move the camera mount. (i hope).

Good luck .. and cya Fri.

 

I like the way Zsolt is willing to tempt racing karma.

K

 

Yeah. Zsolt just bought himself a "wreck the car while putting it on the trailer" lottery ticket.

 

SPiFF car prep motto: See no evil, hear no evil.

Oh yea .. I guess I should also bleed the front calipers.

 

i could not find a 12x1.25 helicoil kit ANYWHERE. i looked for days and all i came up with was 12x1.75, at: http://www.grainger.com/Graing...citem=

the drill bit cost about $30 if i remember, and you'll need to get new bolts in 1.75. if you find 12x1.25 please tell me where because i'm convinced they don't exist.

i still have the drill bit, tap, insert tool, and 2 inserts. if you want me to send it to you, let me know.

good luck

 

Be happy that one bolt hadn't come out so the thing could really move and start slamming around. I bought an '86 CRX and found this had happened and had wallowed the aluminum case out to the point that it cracked. I ended up having it welded up and then tapped it for an English course thread bolt to get a better bite. I had always thought it was caused by some previous lout mechanic (as opposed to the current lout mechanic I suppose) who had maybe cross threaded it unknowingly then ran it is with an air gun. Maybe it just wasn't well tightened and it worked loose. Becasue of that, I always run it in by hand all of the way just to make sure those critical bolts into aluminum are in properly.

 

Scott, this happened to me last week, no joke. All 3 rear tranny mount bolts came loose at my last race. The tranny separated enough from the block that tranny fluid spilled out here and there in the paddock between qualifier and race. Well, I dropped the tranny last Sun. but it took 3 days to find the M12x1.25 helicoil kit in town. Only 1 shop had it...for $56. Then came the adventure of finding the right drill bit in a 3/8" shank. I finally got the tranny bolted up Thurs. night, hours before I had to load the car on the trailer. After all that ordeal, 1 of the helicoils didn't hold.

 

Okay I'll ask the dumb question. Why kill yourself by sticking to metric fasteners? Just install English helicoils and English bolts and be done with it. You're being hard on yourself.

Okay, okay, if you *have* to stick to metric, then go to the next larger *available* size.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kb58 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Okay I'll ask the dumb question. Why kill yourself by sticking to metric fasteners? Just install English helicoils and English bolts and be done with it. You're being hard on yourself.

Okay, okay, if you *have* to stick to metric, then go to the next larger *available* size.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I hear ya.
I was saying (or meant to say) that the only place in town that was open Saturday that had helicoils had them only in standard and not anywhere near the correct size.

If I can't find a 12x1.25 kit anywhere I'll certainly do whatever it is I can get my hands on. 12x1.75 seems to be more popular based on what a google search produced. Surely I can get one of those in the next couple of days... Surely.

Any of you guys that have done the 12M helicoil... What size drill bit was required?
I might as well start working in that direction as well. I'm not silly enough to believe any one of the 100 or so bits I already have is actually the correct one.

Scott, who's triple checked everything and found no cracks or other extra damage from this little adventure (and I'm sure the powerstroke D15B1 has something to do with that).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Any of you guys that have done the 12M helicoil... What size drill bit was required?</TD></TR></TABLE>

31/64"

honestly i would just replace the tranny case instead.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jwn7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">honestly i would just replace the tranny case instead.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Scott, I have an old tranny, you can have it for shipping. If you want i can fedex it out to you. Let me know.

S.

 

Well, all of the pimpy parts are in this tranny case, including final drive, LSD, and all new bearings, forks and such.
Not only do I not want to mess with dropping a tranny this week, I certainly don't want to mess with switching all the guts from this case into another one.

I have 3 spare trannys, but I'm lazy AND not very confident in my tranny construction skills. Thanks anyway Seabass.

As the story continues... A couple of places opened today and one actually had a 12x1.75 helicoil kit (the closest thing to the correct size I've found yet). But NOBODY in town has 12x1.75 bolts.
The local nut and bolt specialty shop opens back up tomorrow and everyone at the parts places I've spoken with says that they'll definately have everything I need. If not a 12x1.25 helicoil, then 12x1.75 bolts to go with the kit I did manage to find. I found a 31/64 drill bit on the 4th try today (Lowes actually), so the boring is about to commence.

Scott, who doesn't really mind being in a small town except on the rare occassions when stuff like this happens

 

well, I realized shortly after I typed it that fed-exing a tranny overnight wouldprobably cost you more than it is worth, even if I was willing to let you borrow my pimpy tranny (LSD, FD, etc)... Although if absolutely necessary, I know I can deliver it to you and be back in town before I have to get back to work...
lemme know if I can be of help.

 

I've had a couple transmissions done by this place: http://www.valleyengine.com

They charged $20 installed for 12x1.25 Time-Serts. Granted, they are on the west coast, but just thought I'd mention that 12x1.25 inserts do exist. Maybe they can ship you some or tell you where to get them locally?

 

I had a similar issue in a b-series tranny a few years ago, and after the same troubles you are having, I ended up going to SAE 9/16-12. Way easier to find the correct hardware. I did consult a few engineers about it as well, as to the holding capacity of the coarse vs fine and the likelyhood of them backing out. They never backed out at all, or stripped again...before the tranny was replaced at least.

 

I should have added that another reason for going to a larger bolt size (metric or otherwise) is the added strength. The stock bolts and bores have already demostrated they're weak, so why not up-size the bolts so it doesn't happen again. Larger bolts = more surface area = less stress/area.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Batoutahell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">After all that ordeal, 1 of the helicoils didn't hold.</TD></TR></TABLE>


I've heard of this before. Apparently helicoils can come out easier than tine-serts.....

Also, my b-series hydro tranny on my itr had the short bolt simply strip out the aluminum. I installed and removed it, so it's nobody's fault but mine. AND I always install by hand, so I have no idea how it could've happened. Sucks, eh? Now I'm running around with just two bolts on my tranny mount. Been ok so far - I guess that's why honda puts 3 bolts in there and 5 in the wheels (in my car, anyway). Just in case a couple break, you're still ok.....

 

Are you going to add some locktite to those bad boys to help prevent this in the future??

 

Fixed.

Will it hold? I dunno.
But they are loctited, torqued and set. For now.

Scott, who has added "Check all mount bolts" to his pre-race checklist.