my car has been making a strange sound around 5k rpms in 2nd and 3rd gear. Espescially 3rd... At first I thought it was detonation because it kinda sounds like the whole bb's in a coffee can type sound or something, but I've tried backing down my timing extreme amounts and it still does it. I checked my base timing at the dizzy last night and it was only set at 9 degrees . So my timing must have been real low...not to mention i turned it down a lot past 5k rpms while in boost on uberdata. I was told it may be the car missing or spark being blown out so I got new plugs and gapped them to like .026 and i still heard the sound a little. Any idea what this could be?

 

oh and here is a pic of my old plugs. I don't think it looks like they show any signs of detonation.

 

plugs look a little on the rich side. but that wouldnt cause detonation...

but possible in the upper RPM range you are leaning out. do you have any A/F ratio datalogging?

 

i don't have a wideband to look at my af, but there is no possible way i should have been leaning out up top. I set my values extremely rich. Basically to the point where my 450's were maxing out and I still heard it some.

 

sounds like its pinging if u say its like bb's in a coffee can. it usually pings when ur timing is on the advance side. cause my n/a car pings and my timing is stock. but im using 87.( its a mini me). what kinda gas are you using?

 

i'm using 93. There is no way it should be pinging where I have my timing set. Put it this way...i had it set to 9 degrees btdc timing and my timing values in boost extremely conservative and it was still doing it.

 

bump. Could it just be that I need a better fuel pump?

 

I'm guessing your using dsm 450s, is it possible that they are crapping out, and not giving you the fuel you think they are?

 

can't running very retarted timing raise EGTs to the point where detonaion may occur?

Why not try a more conventional setting? Is your cam timing correct? adjustable cam gear? skipped tooth?

 

sounds like a spun rod bearing to me. some rod knock anyone? let your motor run. try to get it to make that knockin sound while its in park. then pull out a spark plugt wire, if the noise goes away then u got rod knock

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by project dc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sounds like a spun rod bearing to me. some rod knock anyone? let your motor run. try to get it to make that knockin sound while its in park. then pull out a spark plugt wire, if the noise goes away then u got rod knock</TD></TR></TABLE> What?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my car has been making a strange sound around 5k rpms in 2nd and 3rd gear. Espescially 3rd... At first I thought it was detonation because it kinda sounds like the whole bb's in a coffee can type sound or something, but I've tried backing down my timing extreme amounts and it still does it. I checked my base timing at the dizzy last night and it was only set at 9 degrees . So my timing must have been real low...not to mention i turned it down a lot past 5k rpms while in boost on uberdata. I was told it may be the car missing or spark being blown out so I got new plugs and gapped them to like .026 and i still heard the sound a little. Any idea what this could be?</TD></TR></TABLE> Have you had the car dyno tuned? If not do so. You need to star t eliminating possiblities, its not your tappets is it?

 

if you have rod knock. basically say it happens at 3K * the knocking noise*


rev yoru car to 3K and the knockin noise should come about

pull out spark plug wire #1 while your revvin. if its still knocking loud plug it back in, pull out wire #2, still knocking, plug it back in , pull out #3, still knocking, plug it back in, pull out #4 if knocking is still loud, its prob somethign else, if it gets quieter or goes away, that particular cylinder is your culprite for the bad bearing.

reason why it happens ?

becuase theres no combustion happening in the particular cylidner that has the bad bearing. no combustion = less wear n tear on the messed up bearing and less noise.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by project dc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you have rod knock. basically say it happens at 3K * the knocking noise*


rev yoru car to 3K and the knockin noise should come about

pull out spark plug wire #1 while your revvin. if its still knocking loud plug it back in, pull out wire #2, still knocking, plug it back in , pull out #3, still knocking, plug it back in, pull out #4 if knocking is still loud, its prob somethign else, if it gets quieter or goes away, that particular cylinder is your culprite for the bad bearing.

reason why it happens ?

becuase theres no combustion happening in the particular cylidner that has the bad bearing. no combustion = less wear n tear on the messed up bearing and less noise. </TD></TR></TABLE> But what about the misfire thats going to occur when you plug a plug? I would assume on a freshly built engine the bearings would be new... I would hope its not a big end bearing.

 

That's pretty god damn smart project dc2, I would never think of that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sporkcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's pretty god damn smart project dc2, I would never think of that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats an old *** trick....my dad told me that **** when i was like 12

 

I wish I had a cool dad that would tell me that kind of stuff. I had to go out and learn for my own, thank you HT!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bailhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">can't running very retarted timing raise EGTs to the point where detonaion may occur?

Why not try a more conventional setting? Is your cam timing correct? adjustable cam gear? skipped tooth?</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats what I was thinking too. I'm gonna try raising my timing today. As far as cam timing I'm running a zex 59300 cam set at 3 degrees advanced.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by project dc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you have rod knock. basically say it happens at 3K * the knocking noise*

rev yoru car to 3K and the knockin noise should come about

pull out spark plug wire #1 while your revvin. if its still knocking loud plug it back in, pull out wire #2, still knocking, plug it back in , pull out #3, still knocking, plug it back in, pull out #4 if knocking is still loud, its prob somethign else, if it gets quieter or goes away, that particular cylinder is your culprite for the bad bearing.

reason why it happens ?

becuase theres no combustion happening in the particular cylidner that has the bad bearing. no combustion = less wear n tear on the messed up bearing and less noise. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think its rod knock because this doesn't happen at 3k. It happens around 5200 rpms in 3rd gear and sometimes in second gear.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbozxi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Have you had the car dyno tuned? If not do so. You need to star t eliminating possiblities, its not your tappets is it?</TD></TR></TABLE>

nope not dyno tuned yet. I plan on hopefully getting it tuned with a wideband sometime soon. What is a tappet? Is it what you adjust for your valves? If so then I just adjusted them last week and i know its definantely not that kind of sound.


Modified by SOHC_MShue at 12:47 PM 7/2/2004

 

He wasn't saying rod knock only occurs at 3k RPM.

He was giving an example:

"Say [Pretend, Assume etc] it happens at 3k" for the sake of explaination.

 

well wouldn't that occur when I'm not boosting? I tried not boosting anything and doing a 3rd gear pull. Without boost my motor didn't make the detonation sound. Maybe do I need to upgrade my fuel pump?

 

I have the same, exact identical problem to the T.
--------------
97 civic EX
stock D1Y8, 125k miles
greddy kit @ 8 psi
stock injectors/pump
blue box
stock timing
ZFR6F-11's gapped at .030"

slight pinging sound (like rocks under the car) in the upper RPM in 3rd mainly, sometimes 2nd.
I'm going to try backing up the timing 1 degree, installing a DOHC VTEC fuel pump (135lph vs. my 79lph one), replacing my fuel filter and running some injector cleaner through the system.

 

the zex cam seems to like to run retarded... just fyi.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostincoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have the same, exact identical problem to the T.
--------------
97 civic EX
stock D1Y8, 125k miles
greddy kit @ 8 psi
stock injectors/pump
blue box
stock timing
ZFR6F-11's gapped at .030"

slight pinging sound (like rocks under the car) in the upper RPM in 3rd mainly, sometimes 2nd.
I'm going to try backing up the timing 1 degree, installing a DOHC VTEC fuel pump (135lph vs. my 79lph one), replacing my fuel filter and running some injector cleaner through the system. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yea i was thinking it may be the fuel pump as well so ithink i'm gonna order a walbro. Let me know how that works out for you. I've tried backing up the timing a bunch and all that and nothing has worked. I have gotten it to stop by adding a butload of fuel, but I was basically maxing out my injectors which isn't good either so i backed them back down. I was probably running extremely rich.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by soccaian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the zex cam seems to like to run retarded... just fyi. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea 3 degrees advanced is retarded on that cam. I believe the real 0 degree timing mark is around 5 degrees advanced on that cam in my setup. Put it this way...at 0 degrees on the cam gear I can only pull out 6 degrees of ignition timing with the dizzy fully advanced. I've talked to other people with the same exact problem so I know its not my timing or anything...plus I've double checked it like 50 times.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yea 3 degrees advanced is retarded on that cam. I believe the real 0 degree timing mark is around 5 degrees advanced on that cam in my setup. Put it this way...at 0 degrees on the cam gear I can only pull out 6 degrees of ignition timing with the dizzy fully advanced. I've talked to other people with the same exact problem so I know its not my timing or anything...plus I've double checked it like 50 times.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Is this only for the Y8 timing? Mine seems fine but I have a Z6 set at 0. This is on my built motor. NEver ran it on a stock motor. I have seen some threads on this in the past and I thought it was a Y8 issue.

 

damn im finishing up my trubo kit on my y8, and if u have to get an upgraded fuel pump then ill definatly have to. im hoping for 10-12lbs using urberdata, and DSM 450s.

allwell. let us know what happens, and if the pump fixe's teh problem.