This little project turned out to be a whole lot harder than the 14 easy steps on Brett's site. My car is a 97 GSR, and I think some of the dimensions changed just enough to be annoying. I hope others can listen to me bitch and moan and hopefully learn something.

I made my own BSQ kit by taking the specs off Brett's site (thanks).

Problem 1: Can't get the tack welded nuts off.
I tried hitting them with a hammer, but put a dent in my crossmember. I guess I got a good tack-welding job done on my car. You could see the indents where the welds were pulling at the sheet metal. Heh, I was gonna get tearout before even starting the install.

Solution: Thanks to others who gave suggestions (except for those who only repeated that THEY were able to get the nuts off by wacking it straight on with a hammer). I chiselled off one weld and then was able to wack the nut off with a hammer.

Problem 2: 1/2" spacer is not tall enough to clear the ABS bracket.
I think 1/2" is the right height because it is flush with the upper mounting hole.

Solution: I took the steel plate back to the machine shop and had to cut off some corners and stuff: http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/...6.jpg
Anyway, I had to round off some corners and cut a groove in the plate to clear the ABS bracket. Stupid ABS bracket.

Problem 3: The mounting holes are not vertically aligned, so the swaybar bracket sits crocked. I could not rotate the bracket enough so that both bolts would fit through the hole.

Solution: So I took it back to the machine shop and used a 11/32" mill to elongate the upper hole outwards and lower hole inwards by about 100 mils each.

Problem 4: Lower inner corner of swaybar bracket hits ABS bracket.

Solution: Back to the machine shop and took off the corner of the swaybar bracket.

Problem 5: I don't think the steel plate makes good contact to the subframe at the upper mounting hole.

Solution: Inserted a thin (15mils) piece of aluminum. Hopefully, this will squish down a bit and make better contact. Remind me to check the tightness of the bolt after a few drives.

Problem 6: Swaybar bushing sticks out about 1/8" from the bracket. I am worried that if I crank down the bolts, it will bend the steel plate, thus causing the mounting surfaces to be non-flush.

Solution: I put a thin washer between the bracket and steel plate. The bushing squished down more than I expected anyway, and the steel plate is only a little bent. Maybe someday I will put something in to support the middle of the steel plate (i.e. put the former swaybar lower mounting hole to good use).

Some other notes:
My endlinks are pointing only a little more forwards than before, maybe 1/4" inch or so. I might get a longer bolt on the LCA to move the bottom of the endlink outwards a little. I think optimally you want the endlinks to be tangential to the arc swept by the end of the swaybar (not necessarily perpendicular to the ground)

So far, it doesn't look like the swaybar will hit the ABS line on the LCA.

I don't really like the lower mounting point, i.e. using only the ABS bracket to press against the sheet metal. Mebbe I should have shoved a washer in there to spread out the load by more. Or better yet, just get rid of the ABS bracket.

Now that I think about it, I don't really like the inside upper mount either. It is just a tack-welded nut pulling against sheet metal. I think what would work well is a big disk with a hole thru it so that a bolt can pass. Then you can either remove the tack welded nut, or make an indentation in the disk so that the tack welded nut can sit inside the disk. You'd have to drill out the threads on that nut to make this work though. Dam muffler is in the way...


Modified by beanbag at 12:13 AM 6/20/2004


Modified by beanbag at 12:14 AM 6/20/2004

 

nice write up and solution/problems for a trial user. Too bad you had problems though. I still give you a for the nice length walk through

Good luck with your new mod

 

haha dude you didn't make yours exactly like he did... did you look at the pics the site?

Um yeah, the plates in Bret's kit already have a corner cut off, and you can't keep the ABS bracket bolted up like that. I do believe his instructions mentions using only one bolt to hole the ABS brackets on, which is what I did, work fine, and you would have had to cut into the plate like that.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Problem 3: The mounting holes are not vertically aligned, so the swaybar bracket sits crocked. I could not rotate the bracket enough so that both bolts would fit through the hole.

Solution: So I took it back to the machine shop and used a 11/32" mill to elongate the upper hole outwards and lower hole inwards by about 100 mils each.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm pretty sure the difference in vertical alignment isn't enough to make a difference.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Problem 4: Lower inner corner of swaybar bracket hits ABS bracket.

Solution: Back to the machine shop and took off the corner of the swaybar bracket.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Again no problems if you only use one bolt on the ABS brackets.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Problem 5: I don't think the steel plate makes good contact to the subframe at the upper mounting hole.

Solution: Inserted a thin (15mils) piece of aluminum. Hopefully, this will squish down a bit and make better contact. Remind me to check the tightness of the bolt after a few drives.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No problems here.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Problem 6: Swaybar bushing sticks out about 1/8" from the bracket. I am worried that if I crank down the bolts, it will bend the steel plate, thus causing the mounting surfaces to be non-flush.

Solution: I put a thin washer between the bracket and steel plate. The bushing squished down more than I expected anyway, and the steel plate is only a little bent. Maybe someday I will put something in to support the middle of the steel plate (i.e. put the former swaybar lower mounting hole to good use).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah it's going to stick out a bit when there's nothing to tighten the bracket down. By putting those spacers in there, it's keeping the bushings from tightening around the swaybar as much as they should.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Some other notes:
My endlinks are pointing only a little more forwards than before, maybe 1/4" inch or so. I might get a longer bolt on the LCA to move the bottom of the endlink outwards a little. I think optimally you want the endlinks to be tangential to the arc swept by the end of the swaybar (not necessarily perpendicular to the ground)</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think that's possible, given the geometry of the swaybar and LCA movement and the attachment points of the endlink on both of those. My endlinks point pretty far forward when the suspension is at full droop (off the ground), but when it's on the ground, they're almost vertical.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So far, it doesn't look like the swaybar will hit the ABS line on the LCA.

I don't really like the lower mounting point, i.e. using only the ABS bracket to press against the sheet metal. Mebbe I should have shoved a washer in there to spread out the load by more. Or better yet, just get rid of the ABS bracket.

Now that I think about it, I don't really like the inside upper mount either. It is just a tack-welded nut pulling against sheet metal. I think what would work well is a big disk with a hole thru it so that a bolt can pass. Then you can either remove the tack welded nut, or make an indentation in the disk so that the tack welded nut can sit inside the disk. You'd have to drill out the threads on that nut to make this work though.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you're over-thinking the whole thing. I've had mine for over 35K miles now w/ no problems.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dam muffler is in the way... </TD></TR></TABLE>

dang man take that junk off while you work on the swaybar. I had to on mine, just 2 bolts to get the axle-back section off.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">haha dude you didn't make yours exactly like he did... did you look at the pics the site?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes I did. Look at what I had to do to my plate, and tell me that his plate would have worked as is.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Um yeah, the plates in Bret's kit already have a corner cut off, and you can't keep the ABS bracket bolted up like that. I do believe his instructions mentions using only one bolt to hole the ABS brackets on, which is what I did, work fine, and you would have had to cut into the plate like that.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

we both used only one bolt to hold the abs bracket on

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm pretty sure the difference in vertical alignment isn't enough to make a difference.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well I'm pretty sure I couldn't get the bracket on without twisting the bolts or the bushing. Why half-*** something and put it on crooked?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yeah it's going to stick out a bit when there's nothing to tighten the bracket down. By putting those spacers in there, it's keeping the bushings from tightening around the swaybar as much as they should.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I still ended up compressing the bushing by about 1/8" anyway. And what bad thing will happen if the bushing isn't clamped quite as tight as it should be?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I don't think that's possible, given the geometry of the swaybar and LCA movement and the attachment points of the endlink on both of those. My endlinks point pretty far forward when the suspension is at full droop (off the ground), but when it's on the ground, they're almost vertical.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, I don't know why our endlink positions would be different. Mine don't change much when I raise the car.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
dang man take that junk off while you work on the swaybar. I had to on mine, just 2 bolts to get the axle-back section off. </TD></TR></TABLE>

it comes off that easily?

 

For reference, my itr rsb install took 25 min. This includes a coffee run next door while the a guy was under the car working.

the tackwelds were annoying. i drilled mine out.

 

what is the links to bretts site

 

I dunno man, here's what mine looks like with a kit from Bret, as you can see the ABS bracket only has the bolt that goes thru the mount kit, and not the upper bolt:





Here's the endlink w/ the car on the ground:


The angle of the endlink with respect to the ground definitely changes as the suspension moves, since the ends of the swaybar make an arc. As the suspension expands (control arms swing down), the ends of the swaybar also swing down, pushing the connection point at the endlink forward. The angle while the car is just sitting also depends on the ride height. My car is about 3" lower than stock, and if yours isn't that low the endlink probably angles farther forward than mine does.

One issue I have been having is the swaybar rubbing the metal casing over the ABS wire:


I need to do something like put a washer between the subframe and the BSQ kit on each bolt, to push the swaybar back just slightly and off that ABS wire. However this issue also a function of ride height. When my car is off the ground, the swaybar is nowhere near the ABS wire. If you're not lowered as much as me, then you probably won't have any issues with that.

But like I said it's been on there for well over 30K miles now and it hasn't given me any problems.

 

Not gonna fit without some trimming:

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/...1.jpg

Note that I ALREADY elongated the bracket hole to slide the bracket to the left about .1".

As for the ABS bracket that causes the line to hit the swaybar, did you try loosening the bolt that holds it on and bending it downwards or inwards? Did you cut the bumpstops when lowering your car? Coz I don't plan to lower the car nor cut the stops. Maybe it will never hit in my case?

As for the endlinks, I still think our setup might be slightly different coz you said that your's were angled at full droop and mine aren't.

I agree with you that moving the swaybar a little further away from the frame will solve many of these problems. The bar is already about 1.5" from the frame anyway, so another .2" or so shouldn't hurt by much. Then again, if you can just manage to move the ABS line out of the way somehow, increasing the length of the LCA to endlink bolt might be easier.


Modified by beanbag at 3:24 PM 6/20/2004

 

i said the hell with 2 of the abs sensor line brackets and used zip ties.

i have a beak's SRK so its a bit different, but i'm there with you on the PITA on the tack welded nuts.

 

Be aware that softer stock springs puts more stress on the subframe when you use a swaybar that big, since the body will try to roll alot more than a car w/ lower, stiffer springs. Keep an eye on that subframe even though you do have the mount kit.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Be aware that softer stock springs puts more stress on the subframe when you use a swaybar that big, since the body will try to roll alot more than a car w/ lower, stiffer springs. Keep an eye on that subframe even though you do have the mount kit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

i didn't really have a problem with itr sway but once you start changing everything its hard to play with the abs line..


so now i have a custom subframe, next i plan to weld a OEM ITR tie bar on my

 

I like the Benen Ind. tie bar!

 

You may have problems as well. How much higher off the ground is your endlink connection to the swaybar than the horizontal part of the swaybar? For me it is about 1". For you, it might be as much as 2.5" or so. In other words, when you compress the suspension, the swaybar end wants to swing up and back. But your endlinks are tilted forwards, and thus want to push the swaybar up and forwards. That puts unnecessary stress on your frame. My endlinks are pointed forwards by about 1/2 inch. IMO, my endlinks should be shorter (or the swaybar mounted higher) and the LCA to endlink bolt should stick out by more.