Failed Emissions... HELP
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Failed Emissions... HELP
Ok just went to get my car inspected and i failed for emissions here are the scores
HC = 280 and the standard is 146
CO% = 6.00 and the standard is .82
What can i do to fix this... WTF is wrong with my car?
HC = 280 and the standard is 146
CO% = 6.00 and the standard is .82
What can i do to fix this... WTF is wrong with my car?
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From: Santa Rosa, CA, USA
Re: Failed Emissions... HELP (Curtisbeef)
well first we need to know what mods if any, mileage and if you changed oil and plugs before going to smog.
but high HC is unburned fuel in the engine. change your plugs, cap, rotor, do a valve adjustment and check your o2 sensor. and makes sure you run the car hard for atleast 20 minutes just before you go to your next smog, it ensures the cat is nice and hot.
but high HC is unburned fuel in the engine. change your plugs, cap, rotor, do a valve adjustment and check your o2 sensor. and makes sure you run the car hard for atleast 20 minutes just before you go to your next smog, it ensures the cat is nice and hot.
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From: Hillburn, NY, USA
Re: (Curtisbeef)
Change plugs, cap and rotor.
Checking timing with a timing light and set to 14 degrees (-2 degrees from stock)
Get a bottle of GTPE (gauranteed to pass emissions) and poor it in a full tank of gas.
Run the car until the tank is almost all the way empty...way down.
Drive to the emissions place...before you pull in...pour 3 bottles of HEET gas line antifreeze into your tank.
Make sure the car is FULLY warmed up and then take it in for emissions.
I almost passed like this with a 14 year old CAT...everything passed for me in NJ except NOx...a new cat and the same procedure and the guy asked me how I got a car that old to pass by so much.
Checking timing with a timing light and set to 14 degrees (-2 degrees from stock)
Get a bottle of GTPE (gauranteed to pass emissions) and poor it in a full tank of gas.
Run the car until the tank is almost all the way empty...way down.
Drive to the emissions place...before you pull in...pour 3 bottles of HEET gas line antifreeze into your tank.
Make sure the car is FULLY warmed up and then take it in for emissions.
I almost passed like this with a 14 year old CAT...everything passed for me in NJ except NOx...a new cat and the same procedure and the guy asked me how I got a car that old to pass by so much.
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From: Hillburn, NY, USA
Re: (roadrunner)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by roadrunner »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...running as rich as you are doing, I would think you have a bad oxygen sensor...</TD></TR></TABLE>
How could you ever establish that he is running rich from HC and CO numbers from an inspection station?
How could you ever establish that he is running rich from HC and CO numbers from an inspection station?
Joined: May 2003
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From: TN
Re: (xenocron)
i used some gte(guaranteed to pass) on my old prelude with 230,000 miles and turned the car off(my best friend is a mechanic and said to not let it idle too long) while waiting in the line and passed, but also change plugs, oil etc
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From: CA
Re: (xenocron)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xenocron »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How could you ever establish that he is running rich from HC and CO numbers from an inspection station?</TD></TR></TABLE>
You only can get high CO from rich running. Combusting HC should give H2O and CO2. The C will first go to CO, then CO2 if enough oxygen is present. H will already grab a single oxygen and be done. If oxygen is the limiting reagent, then the mixture has excess fuel.
If it was high HC with low CO, it would suggest lean running to the point of misfire because excess oxygen will drastically drop the CO to almost immeasurable, but unburned HC will still appear at the tailpipe.
You only can get high CO from rich running. Combusting HC should give H2O and CO2. The C will first go to CO, then CO2 if enough oxygen is present. H will already grab a single oxygen and be done. If oxygen is the limiting reagent, then the mixture has excess fuel.
If it was high HC with low CO, it would suggest lean running to the point of misfire because excess oxygen will drastically drop the CO to almost immeasurable, but unburned HC will still appear at the tailpipe.
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I dont think its my CAT because im getting horrible gas milage so i know im running Rich and i can smell the richness of it...
But my O2 sensor is not throwing a code... can it still be messed up without throwing a code
But my O2 sensor is not throwing a code... can it still be messed up without throwing a code
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From: ???????
Re: (Curtisbeef)
Make friends with an inspector... My good friend does inspections... he said theres no way my car would pass.. but he put my car on the dyno, and put the sniffer on a car next to mine that was stock and did the test like that.. needless to say i passed.. illegally but at least i dont have to worry about anything for another year
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From: Sparks, NV, USA
Re: (Curtisbeef)
O2 sensor or injectors sound like your most likely culprit. But definitely do a tune up. New oil, plugs, cap, rotor, wires will all make a bigger difference then you would think. Run some injector cleaner through it and replace your o2 sensor. Car should run a lot better for you.
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From: Hillburn, NY, USA
Re: (roadrunner)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by roadrunner »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You only can get high CO from rich running. Combusting HC should give H2O and CO2. The C will first go to CO, then CO2 if enough oxygen is present. H will already grab a single oxygen and be done. If oxygen is the limiting reagent, then the mixture has excess fuel.
If it was high HC with low CO, it would suggest lean running to the point of misfire because excess oxygen will drastically drop the CO to almost immeasurable, but unburned HC will still appear at the tailpipe.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That explanation MIGHT be correct if you had control of ALL other variables in the equation.
Retarded timing, restricted air filter, plugs, distributor problems will all cause you to run richer...and possibly leaner too. The O2 sensor has the least amount of control or input to the ECU on controlling AFRs...
The O2 sensor is probably the LAST to go in any occasion you are running too rich or lean.
Don't forget too that the Cat Convertor is the #1 reason emissions numbers would be high in most cases.
You only can get high CO from rich running. Combusting HC should give H2O and CO2. The C will first go to CO, then CO2 if enough oxygen is present. H will already grab a single oxygen and be done. If oxygen is the limiting reagent, then the mixture has excess fuel.
If it was high HC with low CO, it would suggest lean running to the point of misfire because excess oxygen will drastically drop the CO to almost immeasurable, but unburned HC will still appear at the tailpipe.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That explanation MIGHT be correct if you had control of ALL other variables in the equation.
Retarded timing, restricted air filter, plugs, distributor problems will all cause you to run richer...and possibly leaner too. The O2 sensor has the least amount of control or input to the ECU on controlling AFRs...
The O2 sensor is probably the LAST to go in any occasion you are running too rich or lean.
Don't forget too that the Cat Convertor is the #1 reason emissions numbers would be high in most cases.
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From: 626, So Cal
Re: Failed Emissions... HELP (bigxclumzy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by roadrunner »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You only can get high CO from rich running. Combusting HC should give H2O and CO2. The C will first go to CO, then CO2 if enough oxygen is present. H will already grab a single oxygen and be done. If oxygen is the limiting reagent, then the mixture has excess fuel.
If it was high HC with low CO, it would suggest lean running to the point of misfire because excess oxygen will drastically drop the CO to almost immeasurable, but unburned HC will still appear at the tailpipe.</TD></TR></TABLE>
sorry but your wrong, CO is defined as a misfire. high HC is rich and low HC is lean condition. can prove it if you want, but i got to dig up my old book and notes.
You only can get high CO from rich running. Combusting HC should give H2O and CO2. The C will first go to CO, then CO2 if enough oxygen is present. H will already grab a single oxygen and be done. If oxygen is the limiting reagent, then the mixture has excess fuel.
If it was high HC with low CO, it would suggest lean running to the point of misfire because excess oxygen will drastically drop the CO to almost immeasurable, but unburned HC will still appear at the tailpipe.</TD></TR></TABLE>
sorry but your wrong, CO is defined as a misfire. high HC is rich and low HC is lean condition. can prove it if you want, but i got to dig up my old book and notes.
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From: Tacoma, WA
Re: Failed Emissions... HELP (bigxclumzy)
hey, I just passed emissions after my seventh try. was running high on co and hc too. changed my plugs, oil, and still failed. so on the last test I retarded the timing a little, removed the air filter and changed the o2 sensor, and it passed. You can get a new o2 for about $60 don't have to get a used one. just get a universal one
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From: CA
Re: Failed Emissions... HELP (bigxclumzy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bigxclumzy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sorry but your wrong, CO is defined as a misfire. high HC is rich and low HC is lean condition. can prove it if you want, but i got to dig up my old book and notes.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Prove it then. CO is not defined as misfire, it's a product of incomplete combustion in which the oxidizer is the limiting factor.
If you have a misfire, there should be no combustion, so no HC bonds are broken and no CO or CO2 will be formed. If you remember the days of when air pumps were introduced, it was a simple method of reducing HC by providing excess to more completely oxidize the unburned fuel. Going from rich to lean, you will reduce HC to a point, but keep leaning it and HC will go up again because the mixture will have more and more trouble igniting...
Prove it then. CO is not defined as misfire, it's a product of incomplete combustion in which the oxidizer is the limiting factor.
If you have a misfire, there should be no combustion, so no HC bonds are broken and no CO or CO2 will be formed. If you remember the days of when air pumps were introduced, it was a simple method of reducing HC by providing excess to more completely oxidize the unburned fuel. Going from rich to lean, you will reduce HC to a point, but keep leaning it and HC will go up again because the mixture will have more and more trouble igniting...
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From: ottawa, ontario, canada
Re: Failed Emissions... HELP (Curtisbeef)
do a decarbonize on the engine (run water in a small amount through the vacuum
line, while running at 1500 to 2000 rpm) if you dont know how to do this without damaging anything get someone to do it for you). this will clean out the carbon and help light the cat before you test take it for a highway run and test it.
do not put any crap in the tank the people who pass that way are just testing the car on a different day with the cat lit. the **** you put in the tank can damage the
gas analizer and some can make you fail on nox (nox is combustion chamber temp). im not a certified repair tech. but im a tested and i work with one of the
best in ontario (canada). respond for more info with all of your numbers on your
fail sheet if your other numbers are high a pass in one area could make another
area fail. pay the money and get the propper diagnostic done by a tech its cheaper than trying to guess.
line, while running at 1500 to 2000 rpm) if you dont know how to do this without damaging anything get someone to do it for you). this will clean out the carbon and help light the cat before you test take it for a highway run and test it.
do not put any crap in the tank the people who pass that way are just testing the car on a different day with the cat lit. the **** you put in the tank can damage the
gas analizer and some can make you fail on nox (nox is combustion chamber temp). im not a certified repair tech. but im a tested and i work with one of the
best in ontario (canada). respond for more info with all of your numbers on your
fail sheet if your other numbers are high a pass in one area could make another
area fail. pay the money and get the propper diagnostic done by a tech its cheaper than trying to guess.
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From: CA
Re: (xenocron)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xenocron »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That explanation MIGHT be correct if you had control of ALL other variables in the equation.
Retarded timing, restricted air filter, plugs, distributor problems will all cause you to run richer...and possibly leaner too. The O2 sensor has the least amount of control or input to the ECU on controlling AFRs...
The O2 sensor is probably the LAST to go in any occasion you are running too rich or lean.
Don't forget too that the Cat Convertor is the #1 reason emissions numbers would be high in most cases.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, thanks for pointing out about the other factors as I had jumped the gun assumed the trouble was after a basic tune-up. What you posted earlier is very important for the whole good running of the engine.
However, I mentioned the oxygen sensor failure because it can cause the grossly rich running Curtisbeef is experiencing, to the point in which the cat can not overcome the rich mixture problem. A total failure will see the car go full rich and light the CEL. If I recall correctly, the resulting AFR has been seen to be in the range of about 10:1 according to several ECU hackers, and that is much more than any clogged filter and ignition timing adjustment can produce. Also keep in mind that the cat works only over a narrow range of AFR, and if there is no excess oxygen in the pre-cat exhaust, the cat will not further oxidize the remaining HC and CO. When the mixture is near ideal, yes, the cat will reduce more than 90% of the exhaust stream pollutants, but when the mixture is very bad, the cat won't help much...
Retarded timing, restricted air filter, plugs, distributor problems will all cause you to run richer...and possibly leaner too. The O2 sensor has the least amount of control or input to the ECU on controlling AFRs...
The O2 sensor is probably the LAST to go in any occasion you are running too rich or lean.
Don't forget too that the Cat Convertor is the #1 reason emissions numbers would be high in most cases.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, thanks for pointing out about the other factors as I had jumped the gun assumed the trouble was after a basic tune-up. What you posted earlier is very important for the whole good running of the engine.
However, I mentioned the oxygen sensor failure because it can cause the grossly rich running Curtisbeef is experiencing, to the point in which the cat can not overcome the rich mixture problem. A total failure will see the car go full rich and light the CEL. If I recall correctly, the resulting AFR has been seen to be in the range of about 10:1 according to several ECU hackers, and that is much more than any clogged filter and ignition timing adjustment can produce. Also keep in mind that the cat works only over a narrow range of AFR, and if there is no excess oxygen in the pre-cat exhaust, the cat will not further oxidize the remaining HC and CO. When the mixture is near ideal, yes, the cat will reduce more than 90% of the exhaust stream pollutants, but when the mixture is very bad, the cat won't help much...
