I've been building my car to compete in Honda-challenge. I'm down to a few last items. In not sure what kind of On-Board fire system I should go with. Untill last night I was sure I was going to buy a Halon 1301 based system. After talking to a fellow racer, he had suggested to get a AFFF Foam system.

What do you guys use in your cars? Have you ever had to use either system (activate it)? pros/cons to either system?

 

I went with the Firecharger 2.3 kit. From philstireservice.com

 

I would reccommend the aaaf stuff, because it's water based, non-corrosive to your electronics, it still allows you to breath, and it doesn't kill the ozone.

We are running the SPA unit in our WCHC car.

 

halon.

also allows you to breath, and doesn't have to be cleaned up....

ozone? I won't be using it everyday.. hopefully never...

 

I firmly believe that Halon is still the best answer.

K

 

Halon is great, but it really is hell on exposed electrical connections. Too bad the only thing that's as effective but also environmentally safe/easy on electronics would cost 350-400 bucks to refill every time.


Modified by TeamSlowdotOrg at 12:46 PM 6/18/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSlowdotOrg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Halon is great, but it really is hell on exposed electrical connections. Too bad the only thing that's as effective but also environmentally safe would cost 350-400 bucks to refill every time. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I know what you mean! I tried finding some of that dupont stuff and a 2.5lb bottle was gonna cost $200 wholesale.

 

Highly recommended.

http://www.apexperformance.net....html

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSlowdotOrg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Halon is great, but it really is hell on exposed electrical connections. Too bad the only thing that's as effective but also environmentally safe would cost 350-400 bucks to refill every time. </TD></TR></TABLE>

If your car is burning enough to have to activate your Halon shouldn't exposed electrical connections be the least of your worries?

I've wondered this too BTW. I've always heard that you can't breathe with Halon, but you can't breathe when you're on fire either. As far as Ozone safe. It a valid argument if you plan on catching fire every weekend. I'd think that the foam would be a complete mess to clean up too . . . . just thinking out load I guess

 

It takes A LOT of Halon to displace enough oxygen to make it difficult to breathe. The amount of halon needed to stop a fire is much less than any dose that could hurt a human being. I would be willing to be a human could take a full system to the face with the nozzle a few feet away and be fine after it...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Adrift &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It takes A LOT of Halon to displace enough oxygen to make it difficult to breathe. The amount of halon needed to stop a fire is much less than any dose that could hurt a human being. I would be willing to be a human could take a full system to the face with the nozzle a few feet away and be fine after it...</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes, you can breathe Halon (not recomended), halon displaces Oxygen and that is why you would be unable to breathe.

Laughing gas is a totally different story.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSlowdotOrg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Halon is great, but it really is hell on exposed electrical connections. Too bad the only thing that's as effective but also environmentally safe/easy on electronics would cost 350-400 bucks to refill every time.


Modified by TeamSlowdotOrg at 12:46 PM 6/18/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>

someone else had told me that Halon was hell on exposed connectors.. But I have a hard time beliving this... Have you seen this yourself?

 

This is the first that I've ever heard of this complaint and I used to work for a fire system importer. This doesn't mean it isn't true but...

K

 

This is very interesting. I have never seen anything about electrical connector troubles. Many high end computer rooms are Halon equipped and it would not be used if there were a problem with the wiring. Another thing, Halon is allowed in deep mining. I don't think Ansul and American LaFrance would supply to that industry equipment that is unsafe in any way. True, you should not inhale large amounts of Halon. On track the safety crew can get you under oxygen very quickly to resote your breathing-so there is really no issue. Is it better than AFFF-that is debateable. Is it easier to clean up-sure. Is it expensive-absolutely.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jc836 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is very interesting. I have never seen anything about electrical connector troubles. Many high end computer rooms are Halon equipped and it would not be used if there were a problem with the wiring. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That is why I asked for proof. I knew it had been used in server/ computer rooms.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Another thing, Halon is allowed in deep mining. I don't think Ansul and American LaFrance would supply to that industry equipment that is unsafe in any way. True, you should not inhale large amounts of Halon. On track the safety crew can get you under oxygen very quickly to resote your breathing-so there is really no issue. Is it better than AFFF-that is debateable. Is it easier to clean up-sure. Is it expensive-absolutely.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Price it really not an option when it comes to saving my butt.. I want to make sure IF i ever have to used it, it does its job and i can get away.

 

After doing a lot of research. This is all I could really find.

AFFF foam - stands for aqueous film forming foam (basically a corrosive soap solution).

Halon 1301 - Halon 1301 is an excellent fire extinguishing agent, leaving no residue(you might find it in use at facilities protecting computer systems) but does indeed cause ozone damage.

I think I will go with Halon personaly.. somthing about having carrosive soap in my car I dont like

thanks for all the replies

 

Halon 1211 is what should be used in a car 1301 is used for computer and electrical equipment. 1211 is more suitable for flamable liquids and electrical equipment. I would never use an AFFF unit in a car it would make to much of a mess and wouldn't be as effective. If anyone is interested in Halon 1211 units I have and can obtain any size available.
I am also an Ansul distributor and can obtain ANSUL CLEANGUARDS a halon 1211 replacement.

Halon 1211 is a gas "Bromochlorodifluoromethane" once discharged is shoots out in a liquified gas form (hard to explain unless you have shot it before), extinguishes the fire and the evaperats in a matter of 30 seconds. You won't see any residue of the halon period it leaves nothing behind. I have been in the fire equipment business for many years and halon is some of the greatest stuff I have ever used and seen. the AFFF system that was mentioned earlier is a cable release system if you get in an accident and are knocked out how are going to pull the cable or if you are out of reach what are you going to do. Halon can be purchased is an automatic release form which is activated simply like a sprinkler system that you would find in a office building or a business. When the interior of the car gets hot enough the halon is released extinguishing the fire.

Halon is also easy on electrical equipment and open connections, reason being the gas is only in contact for a matter of a few seconds and the evaporates and leaves the surface completely dry.

AFFF is also a bad idea, it is a foam that is suposed to be used on oil fires it simply forms into a foam and lays on top of the oil fire extinguishing it. It's considered a light water in that it will float on a liquified fire. It would only be good to use in the cab if you are carring big drums of oil.


Short hand HALON 1211
AFFF





Modified by EVOCELICA at 3:55 PM 6/25/2004

 

I don't understand all this talk about damaging the ozone and is it ok on electrical connectors... if my car is on fire I am going to pull that lever and get my *** out as soon as I can. Can you breath Halon? I dont know not planning on staying in the car that long. My suit is rated at 45 seconds of burn time... I dont plan to use 10 ! The nozzles... dump it all on me!!! Forget the motor!!! Let the car burn to the ground as long as I get out safe... I can always build another car!

 

Other things to consider.

Pulling the fire system while the car is in motion tends to blow the fire protection away from the fire.

Your fire suit is typically good for TEN SECONDS of protection.

A conventional fire bottle in reach of driver is good backup, or sometimes first use.

 

I got a sale in the works 2.5# halon 1211 units with vehicle brackets for $100 shipped and I got 5# halon 1211 units going for $175 shipped with vehicle bracket and for a pit or a trailer I got 13# halon 1211 units for $265 shipped

For a racer on a budget I got 2.5# Sodium Bicarbonate dry chemical units for $50 shipped and 5# units for $80 shipped

I can also aquire any type of extinguisher you may need so feel free to hit me up and I'll be more than happy to work a deal out with you.

 

The current issue of RaceCar Engineering has an article on fire systems.

 

Sounds like a good deal! Do you charge a hazardous fee on your shipments like all the other racer supply houses? If so is this in addition to the regular shipping charges? Thanks in advance.

Bob

 

it's included in the shipping