http://www.honda-pilot.org/for...17599

With honda (and ford) moving to 5W-20 on most of its cars.... it seems to be primarily a fuel economy driven measure here in the US.

I dont have any information that suggests this is what happened when they specified 5W-30 in the owners manuals before though - but given that the EPA and CAFE has been cracking down hard since the 80's, I wouldnt be suprised.

My last UOA came out pretty well, I'm going to keep monitoring it, and find out where I can get Motul 8100 in 0W-40 pretty soon.

 

I have a good friend that i went to A&M with and he works for EG&G all they do is test oils and fuel products for major co's.... I am told that the refinement process has been under attack. The process is so much better now that an oil will hold its value over a greater time line than earlier oil's. It has to do with the additives and the purity of the refinement. All of this is EPA related ( the more crap in the oil the worse the burn and the heat will bring out all the impurity and out the tail pipe they go or worse in to the cat).
Not to mention a light oil robs less hp vs a heavy weight oil. The goal is cleaner purer lighter oils are what they want..
By the way : Castroil gtx is the best 5-30 non synthetic
Mobil 1 is the best full synthetic
Chevron has the best fuel ( mainly the best additives)
Also the best fuel system cleaner..
This is all impartial information from spec engine building and testing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rene M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Mobil 1 is the best full synthetic</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would have to disagree with that.

Most of the formulations are made with a low HTHS value, and are great for economy and power but very shear-happy - probably why alot of ITR owners burn it when using 5W-30.

 

Wow, i have no idea i do not like full synthetic oil. I have a SHO and they do not want synthetic oils in them because of excessive cam ware. Something to do with hyd compression of the cam on the top of the valve . When the lobe comes down it tries to compress the oil on top and the impact damages the cam after a while. All of the oil information was only based on wear reduction. what works the best to reduce wear on hard parts and i have no idea what engine's this was done on. Besides i can not afford Mobil 1 in my cars.. we have 10 between my wife and i..

 

Hey you made Laura home sick with the 12 hour race... we do not have stuff like that around here.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rene M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow, i have no idea i do not like full synthetic oil. I have a SHO and they do not want synthetic oils in them because of excessive cam ware. Something to do with hyd compression of the cam on the top of the valve . When the lobe comes down it tries to compress the oil on top and the impact damages the cam after a while. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats shearing..... One of the methods of oil break down.

I would look for a heavier weight oil if you want to run synthetic that has a good HTHS value (3.5 or higher - ACEA A3 rating) and you may want to look over some oil sample tests and look for an oil with some Moly compound in the mix. There are very few true synthetics on the market, most are "fake" synthetic that are a refined (hydrocracked) mineral oil base rather than a true synthetic PAO/Ester base. Amsoil is a good choice.

If you have an autozone near you, look for this - 0W-30 Syntec, red label, marked "made in Germany" on the back. Its a 'real' synthetic (all the other weights are made in US), same price as the others - but only available at autozone.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rene M &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey you made Laura home sick with the 12 hour race... we do not have stuff like that around here. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Pics from the 12 hour here

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4286637983

 

Best synthetic oil is Amsoil from what I've read at bobistheoilguy.com

Redline is too inconsistent I've seen.

I've also heard about Castrol GTX being a great dino oil. The original owner of my 91 accord used Valvoline dino juice it's whole life and it's running flawlessly at almost 250k.

I'm going to switch that car to Mobil 1 though...The R gets Amsoil.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Justin Klemgold &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Best synthetic oil is Amsoil from what I've read at bobistheoilguy.com</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its a great oil, but I can pick up the syntec at vatozone for cheaper, so it works for me

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Justin Klemgold &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Best synthetic oil is Amsoil from what I've read at bobistheoilguy.com

Redline is too inconsistent I've seen.</TD></TR></TABLE>

From the oil samples I've done:
- redline created 3 times more wear in my engine than mobil1 did.
- mobil1 5w30 and 10w30 breaks down to a 20 weight after 3000 miles of spirited driving, but still had low wear numbers.

 

Does redline even sell 'street' oils?

I havent kept up with what they sell.

Another good oil thats on the market now is Silkolene - a friend of mine that works @ Essex sells it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Its a great oil, but I can pick up the syntec at vatozone for cheaper, so it works for me </TD></TR></TABLE>

You know...I'm thinking of switching to that German Syntec for that very reason. It performs nearly as good as Amsoil and you can readily get it...and it's cheaper...Definitely going to look into grabbing some of this...maybe I'll put that in my Accord rather than Mobil 1.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does redline even sell 'street' oils?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah they do. Although it looks like their product lineup has changed somewhat since when I tested a year ago.

But that was my assumption too. That redline may be a better oil for 10,000 rpm race engines who see that rpm for 2-3 hours non-stop. Whereas for a car that only sees 8400rpm and has to do 3-4 cold starts a day, etc it may not be the best choice...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If you have an autozone near you, look for this - 0W-30 Syntec, red label, marked "made in Germany" on the back. Its a 'real' synthetic (all the other weights are made in US), same price as the others - but only available at autozone.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


.....why 0w30 and not 5w30?

 

with the SAE rating of "0w" would this oil be considered a "multiple viscosity" oil?? so with "0w" they are saying that the oil has ZERO viscosity at 0 degree cel...so would that not mean it is a single viscosity oil because it has a 0 viscosity at 0 degree Celsius.

anyway...with running a "0w" oil do you burn alot of oil?? seems like you should

art- who is confused about the number 0

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.....why 0w30 and not 5w30? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Its the only weight of the "real" synthetic sold here. And its not giving up anything in viscosity at the temps we're used to seeing - in fact its thicker than most 5W30's.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Art Vandeleigh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">with the SAE rating of "0w" would this oil be considered a "multiple viscosity" oil?? so with "0w" they are saying that the oil has ZERO viscosity at 0 degree cel...so would that not mean it is a single viscosity oil because it has a 0 viscosity at 0 degree Celsius.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, that is incorrect.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">anyway...with running a "0w" oil do you burn alot of oil?? seems like you should</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, I burn very little oil compared to the 5W30 Mobil 1 users.

Go to this site - http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi - and search for "GC" or "0W30 Syntec" and such and you'll find out what this stuff is.

I've found that oil weights really dont mean ****. Only specifies a range of viscosity at 2 defined temperatures, and viscosity curves are not linear by any means.

Just some data points....

TEMP M1 0W-40 GC 0W-30 M1 10W-30
-20 2661.5 2609.0 3424.8
-10 1197.8 1127.1 1332.9
0 599.3 546.6 595.7
10 327.6 291.8 298.3
20 192.9 168.8 164.1
30 121.0 104.4 97.6
40 80.0 68.4 62.0
50 55.4 47.0 41.6
60 39.8 33.7 29.2
70 29.7 25.0 21.4
80 22.7 19.1 16.1
90 17.8 15.0 12.5
100 14.3 12.0 10.0
110 11.7 9.8 8.1
120 9.8 8.2 6.7
130 8.2 6.9 5.7
140 7.0 5.9 4.9
150 6.1 5.1 4.2

 

Damn RJ.......i am going to request your title be changed to "Grease Monkey". You are a rather educated individual on this topic!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C-Rsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You are a rather educated individual on this topic!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Except for making statements that are pure conjecture, such as...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont have any information that suggests this is what happened when they specified 5W-30 in the owners manuals before though - but given that the EPA and CAFE has been cracking down hard since the 80's, I wouldnt be suprised.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Except for making statements that are pure conjecture, such as...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its not conjecture.... there's plenty of supporting evidence - EPA was pushing 'Energy Conserving" oils at least as far back as 1988.

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/cd8820.pdf
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/cd8815.pdf

 

have any of you tried the torco oil?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its not conjecture.... there's plenty of supporting evidence - EPA was pushing 'Energy Conserving" oils at least as far back as 1988.

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/cd8820.pdf
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/cd8815.pdf</TD></TR></TABLE>

You haven't presented any evidence that Honda recommends 5W30 for fuel conservation rather than reliability reasons. None whatsoever. Don't make it worse by lying about it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You haven't presented any evidence that Honda recommends 5W30 for fuel conservation rather than reliability reasons. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I never said they did. I just said I wouldnt be suprised. But the fact is one factor for moving to a 5W20 recommendation is fuel economy.

 

Here we go again. .RJ tries to provide some insight while NSXTASY flips out over anything resembling an opinion, which he himself is the master of.


Most endurance racing teams use a heavier weight oil. Honda of Japan recommends a heavier weight oil. Amsoil's racing specific oil is of heavier than average weight. Something tells me that heavier weight oil could possibly have benefits, but thats just me

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ActiveAero &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Most endurance racing teams use a heavier weight oil. Honda of Japan recommends a heavier weight oil. Amsoil's racing specific oil is of heavier than average weight. Something tells me that heavier weight oil could possibly have benefits, but thats just me </TD></TR></TABLE>
Maybe there was a typo in the US ITR user manual?

 

I've been running Amsoil 0w30 since 1999. Never had any problems with it. Yes, it's a little expensive, but I sell it, so that helps too. Any local R's need a hookup, hit me up.

-Victor