for basic track days etc,
nasa/scca autox's as well.


im not so sure what dot/sn ratings it needs, but it needs to pass.


looks-wise, i would like the simpson speedway

all i know is racerwholesale

 

you're in Norcal. go to bellmotorsports.com they ar elocated in Oakland and has actual physical store. It is important to try the hlemet on before you decide to buy.

Helmet city (do a google) also in Oakland, but they are mail order only company.

 

Be sure to buy an SA rated helmet.

 

thank you guys

 

search on ebay for SA2000 and Bell or pyrotect. Bell motorsports puts up a lot of helmets for auction with very minor scuffs on ebay and they go for very cheap (like $100 less than retail). I got mine from them and the scratch buffed right out.

 

you wont need an SA helmet until you start racing competitively. no HPDE or track day organization requires it in Norcal. a Snell rated motorcle helmet will do fine.

 

I will say that the PCA chapter in Alabama is now requiring SA rated helmets. I don't know if that is a rule with PCA now if you run their DEs. Otherwise a Snell M2000 works fine. I initially bought a M rated from Ridegear. Great prices. For SA I bought one from Discovery Parts that is a G Force. Bell owns Pyrotech and well the G Force is built by Pyrotech. Be kind to yourself. Get a full face helmet. I have seen someone lose it at a DE (yes Virginia it does happen) and do some spectacular multiple loops in the air. He had an open face and suffered dental/facial injuries. A full face would have prevented those injuries.
Barry H.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you wont need an SA helmet until you start racing competitively. no HPDE or track day organization requires it in Norcal. a Snell rated motorcle helmet will do fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The standard for car racing (SA) helmets is different from the standard for motorcycle (M) helmets for a reason - the typical kinds of impacts are different in each activity. You can read about the standards here. If you're getting the helmet primarily (or exclusively) for car racing, you owe it to your head to get an SA-rated helmet.

 

dude, seriously, read my faq and tell me what "significant" difference in testing there is between the two SA and M. i dont mean to pick a flame war or pissing contest with you, but my facts are straight from the Snell Foundation website. the two major difference is a flame retardant layer (which is pretty moot for a DE) and an extra, and "rollbar" test. they share the same three anvil impact tests that i personally think is stronger than the extra rollbar test anyway.

about PCA events, its for DE events you can run M helmets. their competitive events require SA, along with all the other safety gear.

 

Tyson, I was the one who said PCA at least the Alabama chapter, requires an SA helmet for yes, a DE. When you click on their link http://ala.pca.org/DE_Pages/driversed.htm one of their "tech" requirements is an SA95 or better helmet:

"All helmets must be Snell Rated SA95 or better! SA00 is strongly recommended."

I have not checked other PCA chapters. Without reading Snell standards I have thought the biggest difference between M and SA was the fire retardant helmet liners, helmet strap. I don't see how fire is a "moot" point for DE cars. They contain gasoline too and can go "kaboom" in flames just like a race car.

Barry H.

 

when i wrote my faq last year i asked a PCA member in the san francisco region what the requirements were for their DE events, and he quoted me M is fine, up to some level of car or event. but for starters, M was fine, from what I remember. things could have changed.

:edit: frm the GGR PCA website
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There are two types of Snell certifications. These are "M" for "motorcycle" and SA for "special application." Both are acceptable for use in GGR Time Trials. (Snell95)</TD></TR></TABLE>

what i mean by a fire retardant layer being moot is because that fire retardant layer isnt too effective if you arent also required to wear a fire retardant suit, gloves, boots and carry a fire bottle. its pretty non sequitar to make a big deal about a fire retardant layer for the inside of a helmet if there is no other emphasis of fire protection.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont mean to pick a flame war or pissing contest with you</TD></TR></TABLE>

Of course you do; that's exactly what you're doing. Between your ignorant response and the obvious mistakes in your "FAQ" (I don't know any track group that still accepts Snell 90 helmets) and your ridiculous claims that fire retardant materials don't matter, it sounds to me like you're just some yahoo with no safety engineering background who decided to post some opinions on the internet and claim that he wrote the faq. Doesn't mean jack.

Furthermore, there are a LOT of groups who do not allow motorcycle rated helmets for automobile track events. It varies from one club to another, and even from one chapter to another within a club. Do you REALLY want to show up at an event with a helmet that might not be allowed?

This is really very simple. Get the helmet that is designed for the activity you plan to use it for. If you're doing automobile racing, get an SA-rated helmet.



Modified by nsxtasy at 10:00 AM 6/10/2004

 

PCAs require you to wear all cotton. Cotton is a little fire retardant. Long pants and I can't remember if long sleeves is required. It all depends on your definition of "flame retardant". Cotton burns off of you. Synthetics melt and shrink wrap whatever it is touching. That makes for very bad burns. That is why corner workers wear all cotton. Maybe the thought is to not have your face burned with synthetic liner.
Barry H.

 

no, really i didnt want a flame war. i have provided facts and clarified the relevent information given in the lengthy SNELL testing. instead of responding by providing any more comparison on the "significant" difference between M and SA helmets, you have attempted to belittle my mechanical engineering background and call me ignorant when i have clearly shown my research.

ill just leave one more fact for you. the poster is from norcal and asking about norcal events. the fact i post about all regular trackgroups in norcal do accept snell M is still true. and he never said he wanted to do "racing".




Modified by Tyson at 10:41 AM 6/10/2004

 

Here in the East it seems that there are also a number of rulesmakers. THe reality as others mention is that you MUST consider what activity (car or other) you intend to do most in addition to what the majority of groups require. I will only wear an SA helmet in a race car or for that matter an HPDE/autocross/Solo car. I really do not care what else is allowed-my choice and it meets all car club rules. Just my 2 cents.
Now-where to buy. Hello Helmet City. They were super about my hat and shoes. Measure your head exactly as they tell you and they will send a lid that will fit. If it doesn't-they will exchange it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ill just leave one more fact for you. the poster is from norcal and asking about norcal events. the fact i post about all regular trackgroups in norcal do accept snell M is still true.</TD></TR></TABLE>

And, as noted here, the so-called "fact" you claim that all regular track groups in NorCal accept Snell 90 helmets is still false.

 

its already updated. like i said, its been a year since i wrote it.

actually NASA CCR still says snell 90 is acceptable. TRUE (as of this date.)


Modified by Tyson at 10:38 AM 6/10/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And, as noted here, the so-called "fact" you claim that all regular track groups in NorCal accept Snell 90 helmets is still false.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

So what, he made an error in a rule that was changed for the 2004 NASA CCR, no need to nitpick and make a big deal about it.

It is up to the participant to read the rulebook and guidelines anyways.

From Tyson's helmet FAQ:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Northern California Groups accepting Snell M90 rated helmets
NASA HPDE
SCCA Solo2
Thunderhill (SCCA) HPDS
Speedventures
Unlimited Laps
Greenflag Driving
TracQuest
PCA autox/TT/track school</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

actually, youve outlined my point exactly. i am totally with you that the helmet should fit its application. so considering that the testing requirements for snell SA and M are a fire retardant material and an extra rollbar test, while they both share the same general impact requirements, tells me unless you are fully protected with flame retardant material, and have a rollbar in front of or possibly in contact with the helmet installed, then a M rated helmets is suited for an appropriate level of crash protection for HPDE and autox. also consider, the field of vision is wider on a M rated helmet.

so if youre not racing or are required, then why spend the much larger amount of money for a SA helmet if a M helmet will do. of course, if it makes sense considering the level of participation you plan on and comfort you want, then go for it. im not discouraging buying SA helmets. but ppl who need to ask about helmets here are usually just looking for the something suitable and cheap. they dont need to be told theyre throwing their life away using a M helmet. seriously, you guys make it out like M helmets arent designed to withstand crashes....

im going to quote golden gate region PCA's website on their opinion on motorcycle helmets. to be fair, i also quote their own recommendation, not requirement.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
M helmets of equivalent manufacture may be less expensive due to higher manufacturing volumes and more competitive sales channels

The GGR Rulebook recommends the SA helmets.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


Modified by Tyson at 10:34 AM 6/10/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no need to nitpick and make a big deal about it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hello, Mr. Pot! This is your old friend, Mr. Kettle.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">considering that the testing requirements for snell SA and M are a fire retardant material and an extra rollbar test, while they both share the same general impact requirements, tells me unless you are fully protected with flame retardant material, and have a rollbar in front of or possibly in contact with the helmet installed, then a M rated helmets is suited for an appropriate level of crash protection for HPDE and autox.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't buy that, for all kinds of reasons.

Suppose someone gets an M-rated helmet and there is a crash and the fire damage just happens to be around the head. An SA-rated helmet would have provided better protection.

Suppose someone gets an M-rated helmet and, in addition to driving on the track, catches a ride with an instructor in a car with a roll bar. An SA-rated helmet would provide better protection.

Suppose someone gets an M-rated helmet and his interest and experience develop further, to the point where he puts a roll bar in his car. An SA-rated helmet would provide better protection.

Suppose someone gets an M-rated helmet because the group he drives with allows it, and then wants to participate in an event held by another group, or a faraway chapter of the same group, and they don't allow M-rated helmets. He will be SOL with the M-rated helmet.

There are lots of different reasons to get the right helmet for the way you are going to use it. Get the wrong helmet, all just to save a few bucks? NOT a good idea.



Modified by nsxtasy at 3:34 PM 6/10/2004