http://homepage.mac.com/kbaill...h.mov

Found it on a BMW forum.

The driver claims that the rx7 slides the rear during shifts from 3 to 4.. I'm not sure if thats the reality. The end results says it doesnt matter.

I just feel bad for him beause another 1.5 seconds and he would have been clear of the wall!

 

Those rx7's wouldnt have a chance in hell to slide the rear end on a 3-4 shift in a straight line. Don't think he'll be making that mistake again.

 

The driver of the RX-7 made a mistake alright. Lack of situational awareness I think they call it. The driver of the Spec Miata did a great job of staying off the wall when the driver of the RX-7 was pushing him that way.

 

Looked to me like the Miata was moving steadily left from the beginning to miss the end of the oncoming wall and probably the RX7 may have been pinching to the right. I would think that folks who run that track would know that you need to leave room on the right in case someone (like the Miata) has to come left to miss the wall. If the Miata hadn't come left, it would have been messier running into the end of the wall.

I've driven several race RX7s and they don't have a lick of torque on a 3-4 shift to move the car to the side. Unless his axle was broken and moving fore and aft but anyway he has bigger problems now.

 

I have not been to that track but from a safety stanpoint that looks a little scary. You can track out from a turn and you have to make it farther to the left or run head on into the pit wall? Hmmm. I kind of see it like CRX Lee. The miata is moving over to not t-bone the pit wall from a wide track out. It is so easy to criticize someone else's driving in hindsight but to me it looked like if the miata driver just breathed off the throttle at one point when the RX7 was fading a touch to the right maybe contact would not have occurred. Of course I wonder about the RX7's situational awareness too. Nothing like two objects trying to occupy the same real estate at once. That didn't look very fun.
Barry H.

 

I'm thinking the driver moved left slightly to miss the wall(!) and the other driver thought he was clear and moved right. Not much the former could do... probably about as good as it could be considering...

 

im agreeing with everyone on this one.

is that the new track in fernley, nv i think thats what its called. looks like they need to make the entry to the pits a little different.

 

Hah, I've seen just those kinds of incidents happen up close at least a couple of times before resulting in the lead car spinning out (except for the hitting the wall part). It's a combination of the leading car cutting over too early and chopping off the front end of the trailing car, and the trailing car purposely not getting off the gas to provide for the few inches of accommodation needed. In these kinds of incidents (where the trailing car does not move left or right and it’s only the passing car changing its path) people would argue that it's 100% the passing car's business to complete the pass on the straight before moving over. Why *should* the trailing car have to get off the gas? So going by this approach, all blame falls on the RX7 driver for simply not knowing when he/she is clear of another car, or purposefully trying to cutoff the other car before the next turn. Either way as seen here, it’s usually the leading driver who pays for it in the end anyway.

However personally, if I were to be the trailing car I would get off the gas momentarily to avoid such a wreck. It's clear that the passing driver, at least judging by the clip alone, lacked situational awareness and/or doesn't know the size of the car he/she is driving. Still, I don't think not getting off the gas for two seconds in that race was worth spinning him/her out like that into the wall. Then again if there was no wall and maybe slower speeds, a little brush - enough to just unsettle the car for a second to wake up the other driver and pay attention to what's going on around him/her - might not be such a bad idea. That, or if it indeed were to be intentional, at least they will get the impression that the cheap cutoff move won’t work a second time.

 

I agree that there is no reason the driver should let off to "let the guy in". He probably figured the car moving over on him was bluffing, trying to cause him to back off. What he didn't realize was the guy essentially didn't know he was there... I think the passing car was attempting an ordinary passing maneuver and was just moving back over to the right to get back on line...

 

I can't open that file here at work (no quicktime), but from what I've read, I was in a similar position myself a few years back during a practice session at VIR (North Course). I was being passed by a faster 3-series BMW after the snake, just before the uphill. I was as far track left as I could be to give him room to overtake. He easily had the pass cleanly before the turn, but before I even knew what was happening, he swerved to the left to try to set up the uphill right hander. His rear left hit my front right, which turned him 90 degrees, and put him straight into the wall. I would have lifted had I known what he was going to do, but it happened so fast I never had the chance. As the car being overtaken, you have expectations as to what the faster car will do. If that other car's actions are outside of that expectation, by the time you realize what is happening, it's usually too late.

If there was any doubt as to whether or not he knew what happened, or why he went off, it was cleared up after the session. He walked over to me and asked, "Hey, I know you were near me when I went off the track. Did you see who punted me?" Fortunately it wasn't anything that an incar camera couldn't prove, and he realized that it was totally his fault. Of course that didn't stop him from posting to the BMWCCA message boards about the Honda that punted him and wrecked his car.... What can you do?


Matt

 

No question: The camera car was essentially going in a straight line, considering where he had to be to avoid driving into the end of the wall. The RX7 driver was probably watching that third car in his mirror rather than paying close attention to finishing his pass...

K

 

The end of that wall of ridiculously scary!

At no time is it the responsibility of the car being overtaken to lift to avoid being pinched. Getting pinched is getting pinched unfortunately I don't think the RX7 driver realized the car was still there.

 

That's why I'd be bad at wheel-to-wheel racing... I would back off if I thought someone's going to hit me. With that weekness I'd never be competitive. I didn't want to spend a week fixing my ride...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by speedracer33 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Of course that didn't stop him from posting to the BMWCCA message boards about the Honda that punted him and wrecked his car.... What can you do?</TD></TR></TABLE>

What a tool.

Post links to the vid, with a big blinking "J00 are t3h suck!" overlayed on the video.

 

Man, that RX-7 is FINISHED!!! Crumpled hood equals Fubarr'd frame

Dan

 

Oh, and no chance in hell that car slides the rear on the 3-4 shift. My car is Street ported, and chirps the 2-3 shift... Perfectly planted on the 3-4 shift...

Dan

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kb58 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's why I'd be bad at wheel-to-wheel racing... I would back off if I thought someone's going to hit me. With that weekness I'd never be competitive. I didn't want to spend a week fixing my ride...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, there are certain situations, like diving for an apex where racing with people you "know" means you're going to back out. In this situation however, I would have done the same in keeping my foot planted because I wouldn't expect to get pinched by the RX7.

 

RX7 driver needs to look in his mirrors, miata driver needs to put momentum on hold since the RX7 driver was lacking awareness. It would be one thing if the RX7 was leading to the outside if there wasn't a wall there but the fact that there was ZERO room for the miata to manuevor, the RX7 driver should've made a better decision. The miata driver doesn't have to lift but if he did, it would've avoided the accident.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The miata driver doesn't have to lift but if he did, it would've avoided the accident. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think the Miata driver really thought he was going to make contact. By the time it was evident that the RX7 was coming over too far it looks like it was too late.

 

that sux for him

 

the miata driver was a rookie.. dunno if it means anything at the end of the day !

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Want2race &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the miata driver was a rookie.. dunno if it means anything at the end of the day !</TD></TR></TABLE>

I skipped the Fernley race but IIRC, the RX-7 driver has a rookie plate on his car.

Either way, it was an unfortunate incident for all involved.

 

i think i a race situation you should't have to lift. You rely on the drivers in that series to know what they are doing. Afterall they all hold "professional licenses".I raced with NASA years ago and I can tel you , in a track like reno, Lifting will nmean losing seconds that lap.It's hard to make that up in a low powered car. The bigger question is, why is that RX7 even racing?That front straight has room for 4 cars, he didn't need to squeeze in like that. All he had to do was wait 2 more seconds and then he would have been clear. A driver that can't even judge that has no bussiness racing.

 

Hello all,

I'm the SM driver who's car this video was taken from. It was a very unfortunate and unnecessary incident, which we both ended up paying for. My 3rd place finish in the race was DQ'ed because of the fact that I am a rookie and was involved in a contact incident, regardless of fault. The rules don't state that they can or have to do that (or even that it's the rookie's responsibility to avoid not-at-fault contact), but apparently there is enough leeway in NASA's rules where they can do that at their discretion. The Pro7 driver, who was immediately labeled the at fault party, was not punished by NASA due to the fact that he didn't cause any substantial damage to any car other than his own, despite the aggressive maneuver and dangerous situation he caused for everyone else. He obviously totaled the car (which wasn't even his), however, and that can't have been a cheap mistake for him to make.

In retrospect and from watching the video about 100 times, if I had known that he would keep coming over on me I would have backed off the throttle early to avoid the accident. That is in spite of the fact that, as CRYJUKES mentioned, it's technically his responsibility to make a clean pass and mine to stay on line and remain predictable. Loosing those two seconds on the SMs I was chasing (for position) would ultimately have been worth it in the scope of doing my part to avoid someone else's aggressive and/or careless actions endangering my life, his own life, and the lives of everybody behind us in the pack.

My biggest error in this situation, and the foundation for the main lesson I learned, was that I trusted a fellow race driver, a very experienced one at that, to not do something as rash and careless as what he did. Leaving 6 inches between me and the wall and me and his car didn’t give me any escape route should he behave in an unpredictable manner, a situation that I realize should be avoided if at all possible. As we cleared the pit wall and he began coming in on me (he did give me enough room to comfortably clear the wall), all I could keep thinking was "he can't possibly keep coming in...he can't possibly keep coming in..." but he did. After the first tap, according to the tape, I had a about .6 seconds to do something before the second and ultimately disastrous hit. Including reaction time, taking my foot off of the brake, and applying the brakes, I'm not sure that I had enough time to do anything fruitful to avoid the situation at that point. Besides, logically why would he come in on me again after he’s already tapped me once? In any case, I'm actually glad that I kept my foot to the floor after the hit, as it allowed me to accelerate out of harm's way with the pack approaching quickly and his 90mph projectile spinning out of control.

So really, even though it is obviously the PS7 car’s fault and is borderline aggressively reckless in my opinion, there are steps that I could have taken to avoid getting tagged. Should I have been expected to do so at the time, not knowing that the driver was going to do something that rash? That’s another question altogether. NASA officials came to their conclusion on that and deemed it worthy of a DQ for me. Being the not-at-fault driver I was initially (but level-headedly) upset about their decision regarding the DQ and lack of punishment for the at-fault Pro7 driver, especially after I realized that the rules say absolutely nothing of rookie DQs in these kinds of incidents. Since I’m powerless to change their decision, I will just have to accept it and move on, making my best effort to learn as much as possible from the situation along the way. But I’m not gonna lie and say handing back that third place medal didn’t hurt...

Cheers,

Kevin
SM #78

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kevin_B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So really, even though it is obviously the PS7 car’s fault and is borderline aggressively reckless in my opinion, there are steps that I could have taken to avoid getting tagged. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well done Kevin. We all should look at the roles we play in any incident and what could have been done differently. That doesn't mean we should reach a conclusion to react differently, just that different options always exist.

In this particular contact, without the hindsight of the aftermath, I see no reason to lift. The point where cars are close, getting closer and contact is imminent is really pinprick in time.

He had no time to react to this and it may be that NASA is setting precedence, by DQ'ing the SM, that once a passing car has its nose in front but not side to side clear, it has full track position rights and the trailing car must lift and/or brake. Unless there are other unstated facts, Poor decision.

Rick