Getting closer.

This is the longest winter ever.

Rose Cups are this coming weekend. I can test Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday. Wanna bet it won't be Thursday? I wouldn't.

So here's what the back of the car is looking like:




Scott, who is now the ground clearance meister...the 3.5 inch Loback tucks up oh-so-nice (I tried, but couldn't shoot a pic that did it justice)...

 

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"></TD></TR></TABLE>

i second that!

 

just a curious question but why do you run such a huge rear sway bar?


keep in mind i don't know what your setup is, as im guessing this has a large part to do with it.

 

Damn that looks hard!

 

That is a very pimpy looking setup. I hope it works as good as it looks.

As for myself, I'm from the old school and have been taught to do everything with springs. I have only begun racing and my racecar only has a rear swaybar but when I upgrade springs in the future I will be removing the rear bar and then I will be able to better understand/realize the value of the sway bars.

I like where the exhaust ends btw. Also, at first glance I was going to say nice 88 crx si but then I realized it was an ITR. Good job!

 

:blort:

that is a impressive piece of tubing you have there.

 

Scott, I had considered playing with a splined sway bar for some time. Is this someones fabbed set-up or have you pieced it together? I have heard that you can get som off the shelf components from some circle track supply companies and limit the number of fabbed parts. Can't see the front ends of the levers but I am guessing that they are adjustable?

I would love to do an adjustable blade style bar but that would probably be a bit far outside the budget so splined might be a better match of value vs. function. Both are still pretty far downstream right now but I am interested in your thoughts on how it works. Looks nice.

 

Lee,

The bar is from Speedway Engineering - it's 1.25 OD, 0.095 wall, 38.5 long.

The arm one of their steel blanks that I reshaped for clearance to the LCA.

The mounts are mine, they carry the bar in spherical bushings.

The links are just cut down rod ends - top is a high misalignment with a 7/16 bore and a 1/2 shank, the bottom is a female 1/2. I cut some conical adapter/standoffs and use the stock bolt to the LCA. It's all way overkill.

There is some off the shelf driver adjustable hardware out there, but it's a bit pricey. I thought about it a bit, but I'm not sure how useful it might be on a typical fwd tin top. Most everybody either lifts a little in the slow corners, or leaves very little on the inside rear - typically with same size tires f & r. The setup that would benefit from driver adjustability would almost guarantee that he'd have to use it. So maybe it'd be useful for making the first 3 or 4 laps less dicey.

Real FWD race cars run wider harder tires up front, and skinnier softer tires in back. And tire-liefs on the front.

The rest of the setup is 1400F / 1600R, and no front bar, with 225/45-15 on the front and 205/50-15 on the rear - R3S04's and no tire-liefs. It's an experiment.

Scott, who was visited by his Jedi master yesterday...

 

Wow! Very, very impressive looking design, fab, machine work. Can you please say a bit about how it mounts to the subframe? Got a pic from the center of the car looking back toward the LCA area? I'm wondering if there's anything else in addition to the two long bolts that go the metal block (through which the swaybar passes) that secure this amazing apparatus to the kah. Thanks.

Casey, lusting over inanimate objects....

 

Casey,

It just bolts to the stock location using longer bolts without additional reinforcement.

It's not carrying much more than the original design load so I'm not worried.

Scott, who always tries to keep in mind why and how much Gordon Murray hates "brackets"...then again, those arms are still pretty heavy lumps.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The rest of the setup is 1400F / 1600R, and no front bar, with 225/45-15 on the front and 205/50-15 on the rear - R3S04's and no tire-liefs. It's an experiment.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ever try also removing the rear bar and runing real high spring rates in the rear, like 2500lbs/inch. Might be a neat experiment.

BTW, that is one sexah sway bar.

 

You've gone the route that I'm trying to work for my Golf. The Speedway stuff is pretty economical, actually but I've been wrestling with the mount question. The longitudinal axis of the ARB in my case won't align with that of the rear twist-beam so spherical bearings will be necessary to prevent binding.

What would you charge for a duplicate of your blocks and bearings? Email me at kirk.knestis@evaluand.com if we can work something out...

K

 

what's the length of the arms you're using?

 

scott, you do realize that the original type R sway bar design attaching to the lca isnt the ideal placement. it is evident when you install spherical bearings in all three pivot points on the lca that the sway bar just twists the lca until it hits the shock and cannot rotate any longer. that is the point at which the sway bar starts to act the way it should.

did that make any sense? i found this stuff out the hard way on my old car.

 

Shawn,

I don't have heims in the LCA or lower shock mount so the only twist will be in the arm itself and the Mugen bushings.

The torque input into the system by the offset in the link mounting postion is the same as the original design, and while it's not ideal, I don't think I'll have the same problem you did.

But it's a great point to bring up in general.

Scott, who really wanted to locate and actuate the bar differently, but that'll have to wait till next winter...

 

..I think we can officially call that an anit-swaybar

 

I gather by that turned down exhaust pipe and absence of muffler that you don't have to meet any track noise limits. Leaves lots of room for that trick sway bar stuff. Bar setup looks nice and stiff. You are obviously have an anti roll bent! Smaller tires at the rear, plus bar and springs? Are you planning to drive the car backwards!

With regard to the twisting moment due to the offset loaction of the rear sway bar mount (on the side of the LCA), Jay Morris told me that when they were having custom rear bars made fot the ITR, they attached them directly to the shock body to prevent the twist. Unfortuneately their supplier (Eibach) stopped bending bars in the US and they could no longer source them.


Modified by descartesfool at 2:00 PM 6/7/2004

 

Claude,

I've got a Loback muffler in the tunnel. It's got an auger or screw baffle in it, and it's just 3.5 inches in OD. I'm hoping to be in the low 90's.

I could have snaked the pipe all the way back, the clearances to the new bar aren't all that different. I just didn't see the need to go to the trouble since I'm switching from RS to ITE and there's no requirement to get the pipe to the perimeter.

Scott, who took note of how Scott Z did the Mugen RSX exhaust termination...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Claude,

I've got a Loback muffler in the tunnel. It's got an auger or screw baffle in it, and it's just 3.5 inches in OD. I'm hoping to be in the low 90's.

I could have snaked the pipe all the way back, the clearances to the new bar aren't all that different. I just didn't see the need to go to the trouble since I'm switching from RS to ITE and there's no requirement to get the pipe to the perimeter.

Scott, who took note of how Scott Z did the Mugen RSX exhaust termination...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've thought about doing the same w/my setup... The T1R "muffler" I have shouldn't be reffered to as a muffler. I might as well be running off of one resonator.

Not too mention removing the rear section/hangers/muffler should save a considerable amount of weight.

Also, I don't think it would be too loud in terms of passing a dB test because the sound is emmitted beneath the car. Inside the car may be another story

I recall seeing a WC race where the BMW team put a turndown on the end of their setup and were one of the few teams to pass the dB w/ease.

Scott, do you have a link for the aforemention muffler thingy you're using?

 

hella tight Scott

 

the muffs tiite. i was told that if you have the turndown slightly pointed away from straight down the ground, you can get rid of some resonance in the car. i bet that one wheel with get a little more dirty now?

 

Lobak - Hayward CA - 510-783-3712

The muffler is available from 8 inches to 36 inches in 4 inch increments. Case OD is 3.5 inches, and your choice of inlet and outlet.

Here the only useful relevant link I can still find:

http://www.norcal-saac.org/ot/soundadvice.htm


Scott, who will post the sound results after next weekend...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by descartesfool &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...With regard to the twisting moment due to the offset loaction of the rear sway bar mount (on the side of the LCA), Jay Morris told me that when they were having custom rear bars made fot the ITR, they attached them directly to the shock body to prevent the twist. Unfortuneately their supplier (Eibach) stopped bending bars in the US and they could no longer source them.
...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Leaving aside the problem Shawn ran into, the other consideration is side load on the damper which increases friction and reduces grip. The offset link mount is bad, and moving it to the damper body doesn't seem like much of an improvement (and I know that that's how BMW does it on their struts).

Best is move the bar almost straight up and mount it on the rails and penetrate the tire well. Then you've got room to move the LCA pickup to the CL of the arm and a more reasonable link length.

That necessitates changing the fuel filler tube routing, which I didn't want to undertake right now.

And at that you're still stuck with the poor motion ratio for the bar - but I'm getting over that.

Scott, who is constantly reminded of the truth in the saying that the perfect is the enemy of the....of the....(can never remember the rest)...of the....Getting it done and ON THE TRACK!

 

screw it, just take out the roll bar, and up the rear springs rates
then let us know how it does. I'm too much of a cheap bastard to try it right now.