Integra, EMS 30-1010, MSD 6A, Blaster SS Coil, MSD Cap

I just installed my MSD and wired it up in the following manner: (stock coil and igniter are gone)


After changing the Dwell Coil Factor setting to 20, I tried to crank it for the first time and got nothing. So then I disconnected the injectors plug and set the coil wire next to a bolt to see if a spark appeared. No spark when I cranked.
I then did a manual check of the install by giving the WHITE wire from the MSD a ground pulse and a massive spark crossed the gap from the MSD wire (from the Blaster SS Coil) to the bolt. So that showed me that the ignition was installed/wired correctly.

Now I've been trying to figure out why the ECU isnt giving me a ground pulse to set off the ECU. 93LSCivic said he wired his directly like this and it worked flawlessly. I checked continuity with pin B13 on the EMS (coil #1) and thats fine.


What needs to be done to get the EMS to ground B13?

 

Sorry, I told you wrong. I was trying to tell ou from memory how I had it wired.

You want to have the MSD's white wire connected to the oem yellow/green wire which is the trigger from the ecu to the ICM or ignitor.

That should be it, all your other wiring looks correct.

 

I cut the Yellow/Green wire that is show here on the right side:
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/po...m.jpg


The ECU/Harness side of it is soldered to the white wire on the MSD.

Still no spark.

 

After all day of ******* around with the EMS, I yanked it out and plugged in the stocker and it gave me my spark just like it was suppose to...


Any ideas anyone?

 

ttt

 

If you have removed the ingitor, you need to build this circuit in order to have spark: http://www.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin...ement. The ECU is looking for feedback and the signal on the yellow/green wire needs to be amplified.


Modified by Jim Truett at 7:39 PM 6/7/2004

 

What benefits do you get from removing the ignitor? Doesn´t the system work the same with or without it? I am planning to install my MSD SCI, and I do not know if I should remove the ignitor.

Thanks.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by luisfoia &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What benefits do you get from removing the ignitor? Doesn´t the system work the same with or without it? I am planning to install my MSD SCI, and I do not know if I should remove the ignitor.

Thanks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The factory ignitor is designed to drive a low impeadance load like the ignition coil. I believe the replacement circuit found on pgmfi.org is a better solution for a high impedance load like an aftermarket ignition.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jim Truett &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you have removed the ingitor, you need to build this circuit in order to have spark: http://www.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin...ement. The ECU is looking for feedback and the signal on the yellow/green wire needs to be amplified.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thank you

There is no way to get an MSD + Honda ECU to work without an ignitor or something to take the place of one.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jim Truett &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The factory ignitor is designed to drive a low impeadance load like the ignition coil. I believe the replacement circuit found on pgmfi.org is a better solution for a high impedance load like an aftermarket ignition.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup, otherwise MSD's eat Honda ignitors. But, Jim, are you sure you got the impedances correctly sorted there?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

But, Jim, are you sure you got the impedances correctly sorted there?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Probably not. It was late, and I was beat.

I assume that the MSD input would be a resistive load. I have a 6A in my garage and I will test it tonight.

 

It had been stated before about the MSD, but there is actually a 10 ohm pull-up resistor on the trigger wire inside the MSD. THIS is the reason you need the buffer circuit....the stock ECU just doesn't have enough current to make it happen.

Whomever posted the original ZTX circuit was also the same guy that posted this info....perhaps John of J&S, was it?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EE_Chris &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It had been stated before about the MSD, but there is actually a 10 ohm pull-up resistor on the trigger wire inside the MSD. THIS is the reason you need the buffer circuit....the stock ECU just doesn't have enough current to make it happen.

Whomever posted the original ZTX circuit was also the same guy that posted this info....perhaps John of J&S, was it?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea, I saw the circuit in an older thread that I replied to maybe 3 or 4 weeks ago...
The person I spoke to said I dont need an ignitor since Im not using the stock ecu. I mentioned it in my original post but I dont think it was clear enough.

Anyhow, I got the car running last night after talking to Mitch over at AEM. When I tried to drive the circuit with a different coil driver the night before I didnt adjust the Ingition Phasing setting as necessary. I didnt know it needed to be changed. Mitch said that the AEM EMS coil drivers max out at 1.5 AMPs and said that I prob blew driver 1. I verified this after I hung up with Mitch and called MSD's Tech Line and they told me the MSD draws 1 AMP per 1000 rpms. So when reving to 8200, you get 8.2 AMP draw. Now this ofcourse would fry the EMS's coil drivers and probably most other ECU's. I then mounted the stock Honda ignitor to the bottom of my MSD Ignition and use it to trigger the MSD. Now she sparks like a reborn beast.


Dan, 93LScivic, runs his MSD straight from the EMS without problems, but he says his car has been dead for a while after various other problems immedietly after installing the ignition so nothing is confirmed.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by integra-modder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Dan, 93LScivic, runs his MSD straight from the EMS without problems, but he says his car has been dead for a while after various other problems immedietly after installing the ignition so nothing is confirmed. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually, the car was running well. The time it was down was from something completely different, and had nothing to do with this modification. I dont have my laptop with me so I can not verify what my coil setting are at this time. I will try to get it soon.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93LSivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Actually, the car was running well. The time it was down was from something completely different, and had nothing to do with this modification. I dont have my laptop with me so I can not verify what my coil setting are at this time. I will try to get it soon.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats weired....did you rev your engine normally? Maybe the ems tech just says its 1.5 so that we dont go blowing the drivers and making them fix it under warranty? eh, i dont know....