Hi
I am going to be a first time auto crosser and wanted to get another set of rims and tires just for this purpose. Is the stock rims the best for someone who will
auto X ten times a year? I think that everyone here has me convinced for the money the azenis are the best bang for your buck(as long as rain is not a factor)
but the size is a bit bigger than stock and some on this board have said that is a factor and 15x7 rims would be better suited for the falkens. I like the konig troubles in a 15 x 7 size and was wondering would it hurt the stock handling caricturistics?(sorry on the spelling)otherwise I would put the konigs on for daily
use and the stock rims with falkins for track time. one last question will a 195 55
fit fine on a 15x7 rim? thanks again all HT users!

 

195/55/15s work with 15x7s and you don't need wider wheels for autox.

 

Brew city is correct in you dont need a wider wheel, but if you are using azenis in a 205/50/15, the turn-in response is night and day between a 6" rim and a 7" rim. The sidewall sits vertical on a 7" rim, it sits in on a 6" rim which gives you mucho flex on turn-in. If you are just learning, run on your stock rims and invest in some coilovers and an autocross school like Evolution.

 

look into the autox forum

 

Hmm... I thought larger rims were proven to give better response on the track? (Talking 17" over 16" and 15")

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TypeRWanter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hmm... I thought larger rims were proven to give better response on the track? (Talking 17" over 16" and 15")</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not necessarily true. They do however immediately provide space for big brake kits which are Not needed for an R for competition. Larger wheels (not rims cause I'm sure you want the whole wheel and not just the outside lip) depending on wheel and tire size selected can change rolling diameter which will affect your gearing and final drive ratio, as well as rotational mass and unsprung weight, two things you don't want to add weight to for performance sake.

As the wheels go to a larger diameter the tires do to but to fit on your car the sidewalls shrink to get the combo as close to stock diameter sa possible so as to negate the gearing issue as much as possible. As the sidewalls shrink, there is less tire between the wheel and the road and of course less air and whatnot to absorb feedback. Stiffer and shorter sidewalls will promote better steering feel, and crisper turn in again, depending on wheel/tire selections and compound. I've also <U>heard</U> that larger diameter tires may run cooler temps, (this I don't necessarily believe but also may be true).

Larger diameter wheel/tire combos also tend to put a larger rubber footprint on the road surface, not just based on diameter but as the wheel gats larger it also tends to get wider. BUT, you could also argue that you can get wider wheels in the same 15" diameter as oem and depending on what you plan to do and how far you plan to go and your racing class and rules and such, you could get as wide as 8" or more with a custom setup.

Bigger wheels don't always equal better, and you must always weigh the pro's and con's before making costly decisions.


Sorry for rambling, kinda slipped this in while BBQ'ing for 550 hungry folks.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1GreyTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Larger diameter wheel/tire combos also tend to put a larger rubber footprint on the road surface, not just based on diameter but as the wheel gats larger it also tends to get wider.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The "footprint" (the area where the tire is in contact with the road, usually called the "contact patch") is the same size regardless of the size of the wheel and tire. The shape of the contact patch changes (wider side to side, narrower front to back) but the size (area) does not. Assuming that the tires are fully inflated to support the weight of the car, the size of the contact patch is a function of the weight of the car and the amount of pressure in the tires. For example, a 2640 pound car with all four tires inflated to 33 pounds per square inch will have four contact patches whose size totals 80 square inches, regardless of whether the tires are 175/70-13 or 245/35-18. Reference.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The "footprint" (the area where the tire is in contact with the road, usually called the "contact patch") is the same size regardless of the size of the wheel and tire. The shape of the contact patch changes (wider side to side, narrower front to back) but the size (area) does not. Assuming that the tires are fully inflated to support the weight of the car, the size of the contact patch is a function of the weight of the car and the amount of pressure in the tires. For example, a 2640 pound car with all four tires inflated to 33 pounds per square inch will have four contact patches whose size totals 80 square inches, regardless of whether the tires are 175/70-13 or 245/35-18. Reference.
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Agreed, I based my comment about footprint/contact patch on larger diameter wheels that inherently are also wider than stock.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1GreyTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Bigger ...... don't always equal better

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your wife only tells you that, anton

py 01-xxxx, i'm selling my oem wheels. pm if you want them!

ps: if it's your first autox, maybe try it first before buying wheels/tires/etc. i'm sure you'll be hooked, but you never know.

 

Personally, I'd much rather have 15x7s for 15" Azenis if that's what you end up doing. The 205/50-15s look like 225s... they're wider than my 205/50-15 Kumho Victoracers. You'd get better transient response/turn-in which is worth any weight-gain, IMO.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by magic hat #9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ps: if it's your first autox, maybe try it first before buying wheels/tires/etc. i'm sure you'll be hooked, but you never know.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Best advice in this thread.

 

rotas maybe? slipstreams or grids? or 16's i would go rota gt3 i cant wait til i get my set

 

1. As mentioned above, I'd try autoxing first , before buying wheels. I spent my first season on my street tires & stock wheels. A little seat time is much more important than your wheel/tire combo.
2. Once you're hooked, consider classing issues. If you run stock class, you have to stay stock rim size, but can run R-compund tires. If you already have a bunch of mods that take you out of stock, then Azenis are probably the way to go.

Oh, and a lot of ITR autoxers go to the Mazda Millenia or other Mazda wheels: stock size, but lighter and cheap.

Have fun.

 

As others here have mentioned, don't spend the money now. Just do some autocrosses and get some experience on your street tires. They'll be fine for this purpose.

If and when you get experience and decide to compete, so you care about those last few hundredths of a second, then you will want a tire designed for autocross, like the Hoosier A3S04. (And bender is right, you will need to keep classing issues in mind when deciding on wheels and tires.) But until you're actually competing, you don't need to buy anything.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If and when you get experience and decide to compete, so you care about those last few hundredths of a second, then you will want a tire designed for autocross, like the Hoosier A3S04</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would not start off on hoosiers. They're expensive and unforgiving to flat spots... Kumho Victoracer is going to be better at first - try to find them use if you can.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I would not start off on hoosiers. They're expensive and unforgiving to flat spots... Kumho Victoracer is going to be better at first - try to find them use if you can.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Stepping further back, before trying any R compounds I'd run a bunch on Azenis, maybe even a full season depending on skill, ability and level of competition desired. Then after developing some decent car control skills I'd go for R compounds like Kumho's either Victoracer or V700's.

But when you are ready to move up to R comp's take a gander in the RRAX forums, or the SCCA or NASA forums and look for some used R compounds with decent life left. There are usually a bunch available, are cheaper than brand new and as long as they have decent life left (aren't damaged or flatspotted) you don't have any need for shaving or heat cycling before running them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1GreyTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Stepping further back, before trying any R compounds I'd run a bunch on Azenis, maybe even a full season depending on skill, ability and level of competition desired. Then after developing some decent car control skills I'd go for R compounds like Kumho's either Victoracer or V700's.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I already took that further step back. Before trying any R compounds, I would run a bunch on your street tires, whatever you're using now. Sure, a full season would be good. Once you've got the car control skills, and you've determined that you like autocross enough to spend the money on R compound tires, you'll be in a position to decide whether you are looking for the ultimate autocross tire or just something faster than street tires.

Save the money now, and give yourself more experience to determine exactly what you will want when you spend the money later.

 

I ran a full season on Azenis and switched over to Victoracers. I did this because I was tired of running on smallish 14" Azenis, tired of abusing the crap out of my daily driving tires, I thought I was decent enough to step it up, and the most important reason - I felt like it.

Anyway, I still suck, but I suck a little bit less on Victoracers.

Either way, seat time is always the best way to spend money, but it's not going to kill you if you buy decent parts for your car in the meantime. Especially since in a very nationally competitive region, you're not going to trophy for the first few years unless you have true talent... At least that's true around here in the bigger classes... and I'm decidedly average.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I already took that further step back. Before trying any R compounds, I would run a bunch on your street tires, whatever you're using now. Sure, a full season would be good. Once you've got the car control skills, and you've determined that you like autocross enough to spend the money on R compound tires, you'll be in a position to decide whether you are looking for the ultimate autocross tire or just something faster than street tires.

Save the money now, and give yourself more experience to determine exactly what you will want when you spend the money later.
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not to mention, if you have a modded car, (tires, suspension, ect.) you will be grouped higher up. Since you are new to the autocross world you should start on a street tire and work into the modded classes. you dont want to out class yourself or you might not have fun.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudeEFv2.0 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


not to mention, if you have a modded car, (tires, suspension, ect.) you will be grouped higher up. Since you are new to the autocross world you should start on a street tire and work into the modded classes. you dont want to out class yourself or you might not have fun.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The real reason someone new to autocross or autosports in general shouldn't immediately go to R compunds is because they tend to mask your mistakes which effects your learning curve pure and simple.

I've seen great drivers on street tires whomp on poor drivers on R compounds.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SkyeC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Personally, I'd much rather have 15x7s for 15" Azenis if that's what you end up doing. The 205/50-15s look like 225s... they're wider than my 205/50-15 Kumho Victoracers. You'd get better transient response/turn-in which is worth any weight-gain, IMO.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree, the Azenis are very large for the 205 that they claim. having a set on a set of 7" wide and a set on a 6" wide rim the 7" fit much better and there is less side wall flex(not that there is much to begin with).

But you shoud try it a few times before you buy a set of rim and tire....

 

thanks june 13th is my first one. I cant wait!

 

Have fun! I just started auto X this year and I love it.
I stopped street racing when I bought my R due to many factors and Auto X has filled the gap!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I stopped street racing when I bought my R due to many factors and Auto X has filled the gap! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Sounds like you're in rehab. "Hi, my name is 0pie." ... :head down:

 

It's a grieving process, I'm dealing, i'm dealing

Of course I do still have fun bwabaaaing by ricers on the street when their windows aree open