I got in a conversation a couple years ago about which American (as in United States of) driver should be our next big hope for an F1 ride and my pick then was yesterday's Indy winner Buddy Rice.

That got me to thinking that I haven't heard anything the guys who were involved in the Red Bull scholarship program - Paul Edwards comes to mind. I guess that I could check the RBDS site but I kind of thought that part of the point was to generate publicity about those drivers: Has anyone seen any evidence of that?

K

 

It says on the Red Bull DS site, one of them is doing pretty good, but I dont remember their names. I have been doing the open qualifying with Red Bull, pretty fun.

 

i wish i was younger
missed out on that

 

Were any of those guys the former pilot of the smoldering remains of the Red Bull car that went into the wall at Indy?

Rice wasn't even *invited* (IIRC) to the drivers search. This after he had just won the Toyota Atlantic championship and got a ride in an IRL car. Now he's won the 500, arguably the top motorsports event in the world. Good job Red Bull.....

I really think our best shot at an American F1 driver is, believe it or not, Jeff Gordan. He's 32, give him a year in Formula 3000, 1 year as a test driver for someone (BAR, Williams, whoever), and let him loose for a few years.

 

But it'll never happen IMO. Too much money in NASCAR, why would he leave?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Too much money in NASCAR, why would he leave?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, he might be stupid, but I'm pretty sure he's not.

 

None of the 4 original drivers of the Red Bull program are doing very well. The highest placed driver Paul Edwards, who ran in the Telefonica Nissan series in Spain was running low on money (and talent) and the other three aren't making a name ofr themselves in the lower formula. None of those 4 have any chance at F1.

The only people who currently have a shot at a ride are established racers in IRL, like Scott Dixon and Dan Wheldon (Brittish not American).

Buddy is a great driver, but not even close to being F1 material. Winning the Indy 500 doesn't make you an instant F1 candidate.

To get to F1 you have to be successful in the lower European formula (Formula Renault, English F3/Euro F3, and F3000). Formula Atlantic doesn't mean didly squat over there.

I raced with two kids, who were from South America, in the Skip Barber series. One was 14 years old, the other 15 years old. Both were South American jkarting champions. One of the two, Ernesto Viso, basically came to the states to take a Skippy school and race formula cars for a season (he won 13 of 16 races). After one year he moved to Europe where he is beating the like of Nelson Piquet jr. in English F3 and hoping to get to F3000 (renamed F2 next year).

Staying in the US to race kills any chances of making the scene in Europe later on. Even with F1 talent and money you will be hard pressed to compete against kids that have raced those European tracks all their life. It can be done, but you are at a disadvantage. In addition you need sponsorship along the way, but very few US companies are going to write big checks for exposure in Europe where many don't sell their products and aren't known. Until you get to F1 the type of sponsors you get are small companies with local (US) products that get no exposure over there. A small mortgage company in Palo Alto, Ca has get's no benefit from having their name all over an F3 car running in Holland.

And US drivers aren't going to get funding from European companies they have no ties with.

I don't think the Red Bull program will ever produce an F1 driver. It's highly political (most of them are Skip Barber kids, since Skip Barber himself is a judge and funds much of it).

I think the next US F1 driver will be someone you never heard of. Someone who moved to Europe when he was 5 or 6 year old and raced there his entire childhood.

A guy by the name of Phil Giebler (US) made it all the way to F3000 but ran out of money and talent.

Other than Townsend Bell and Scott Dixon, no US driver has a chance currently.

Just my 02 worth.

Regards,

Jon P. Kofod (former Skip Barber Eastern Regional Formula Dodge competitor)
#40 Guident Technologies/HRPWorld.com/Flatoutracing.net Integra LS H4


Modified by FLATOUTRACING at 9:46 AM 5/31/2004


Modified by FLATOUTRACING at 9:46 AM 5/31/2004

 

None of them are doing well!?!? Scott Speed already has seven wins in Euro and German F. Renault year!

Speed is the real deal, the other 3 guys from 2002 were basically fillers until they were able to gear the program towards the younger drivers (13-17).

I tried out for the indoor karting portion of it last year (when 19 was the age limit, so I made age requirements by about 2 months), it was fun but I knew if I made it to the next phase there would be no hope for me in the Rotax karts. I came so close to moving on too.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Were any of those guys the former pilot of the smoldering remains of the Red Bull car that went into the wall at Indy?

Rice wasn't even *invited* (IIRC) to the drivers search. This after he had just won the Toyota Atlantic championship and got a ride in an IRL car. Now he's won the 500, arguably the top motorsports event in the world. Good job Red Bull.....

I really think our best shot at an American F1 driver is, believe it or not, Jeff Gordan. He's 32, give him a year in Formula 3000, 1 year as a test driver for someone (BAR, Williams, whoever), and let him loose for a few years. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The guy in the Red Bull car who wrecked yesterday was Ed Carpenter, who only has his ride because hes Tony George's stepson.

Rice is a good driver, but was not F1 material. At 25 he was too old, and F1 teams look for guys who can jump into a car and immediately be at the top; three years before winning a championship doesn't quite fit that agenda.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sean O'Gorman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">F1 teams look for guys who can jump into a car and immediately be at the top; three years before winning a championship doesn't quite fit that agenda.</TD></TR></TABLE>

They've got plenty of time to develop until MS retires!

 

What about AJ Allmendinger? He turned down the Red Bull program. He's in Champ Cars right now but alot of journalists said he's the real deal based on his performance in the lower formulae.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Outrun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What about AJ Allmendinger? He turned down the Red Bull program. He's in Champ Cars right now but alot of journalists said he's the real deal based on his performance in the lower formulae.</TD></TR></TABLE>

A.J. turned down the Red Bull program because he had already landed a paid driver (an extreme rarity) in a well funded Toyota Atlantic team. His goal was Champ Car anyway. The Red Bull contract basically states that they own you as long as you are racing for them, but none of the other drivers had alternatives so they sign it. I know there were many who complained the first year, but the ironic thing is without the Red Bull deal they'd have no future at all. Awfully egotistical to think its better off to not race at all than to sign your career earnings away to get a shot at racing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Rice is a good driver, but was not F1 material.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I dunno. Everytime I see Zsolt Bumgardtner (sp?) drive I say to myself "Dude, *I* can drive better than that..." He gets lapped by Sauber, fer God's sake. I'd wager someone like Rice or Rocky Moran could do better than him.

 

Baumgartner is driving a Minardi ya know. Even Webber was lapped a few times. On the flip side, at least Webber scored some points with a Minardi!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I dunno. Everytime I see Zsolt Bumgardtner (sp?) drive I say to myself "Dude, *I* can drive better than that..." He gets lapped by Sauber, fer God's sake. I'd wager someone like Rice or Rocky Moran could do better than him.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Zslow Baumgartner obviously has something that all current American road racers lack; the personal funds to buy a ride. You act as if this is something new to racing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Baumgartner is driving a Minardi ya know.</TD></TR></TABLE> True. But I see him make 4 steering correction each corner, which is almost a many as I do when I drive Karl's car.

So, either his technique is horrible, thus requiring 4 steering corrections per corner. Or, he doesn't know how to tell the technicians "this car sucks, do something to make it not do that anymore". Looks more like a Formula D car than a Formula 1 car.

I know they *only* spend $40 million a year, but you'd think after a while they'd have a grasp of what to do to make a car less unruly like that. Put in a round of wedge, raise the track bar, something....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the personal funds to buy a ride.</TD></TR></TABLE>

As I recall, he doesn't. The Hungarian government took up a collection.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

As I recall, he doesn't. The Hungarian government took up a collection.</TD></TR></TABLE>

And how many Brazilians, Americans, Germans, Japanese, etc. have access to this sponsorship money? Hence the term, "personal sponsorship." Chances are he is like virtually every other driver to make it to the highest level anyway, born with a rich family to finance his way through karts, lower formulae, F3000, etc.

 

"Personal Sponsorship" and "Personal funds" are 2 different things. But we're arguing over wording. I know what you mean now.

If the US wanted an F1 driver, I'm sure we could find 10-20 million from a dead or dormant goverment program that would likely be wasted on potato research or something.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"Personal Sponsorship" and "Personal funds" are 2 different things. But we're arguing over wording. I know what you mean now.

If the US wanted an F1 driver, I'm sure we could find 10-20 million from a dead or dormant goverment program that would likely be wasted on potato research or something.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Could I be the driver?

 

I guess that the Hungarian government paying Zsolt to not win IS a little like the US government paying farmers to not grow crops...

K

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I got in a conversation a couple years ago about which American (as in United States of) driver should be our next big hope for an F1 ride and my pick then was yesterday's Indy winner Buddy Rice.

That got me to thinking that I haven't heard anything the guys who were involved in the Red Bull scholarship program - Paul Edwards comes to mind. I guess that I could check the RBDS site but I kind of thought that part of the point was to generate publicity about those drivers: Has anyone seen any evidence of that?

K</TD></TR></TABLE>


Scott Poirier was one of the original finalists in the Red Bull drivers search and is now in SPEED World Challenge in one of the Mercedes, saw him today at lime rock.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Could I be the driver? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't think you could do any worse than Zsolt.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I don't think you could do any worse than Zsolt.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Have you ever been to an F1 race? Those guys, even in the Minardis, are FAST! It might not look that way on TV, but they are extremely talented. Yeah, they look bad compared to the best of the best, but you take any F1 driver and put them in a Honda Challenge car in one of our races, and we would be lapped within minutes.

 

I got to see one of the Red Bull Prelims this weekend in a San Jose indoor karting track. I think that the Red bull search is missing alot of prime talent, just in the nature of it's age restrictions. I watched the final heat of the competition, with the supposed top 8 drivers. All were about 16. The race was dominated by one driver, who posted a 28.3. about half the kids looked like they didn't know which pedal did what, but I still assumed that the 1st place kid must be the best our area had to offer.

I hit the track expecting to do much worse, but I got a 28.4. Keep in mind this is my first visit to this track, I out weighed the kid by about 60lbs, and this was only the 10th time I have gone indoor karting ever in the last 2 years. Two friends in my group who don't race got high 28s.

Then two 19 or 20 year old kids came in and joined our group. They both quickly posted 27.2. (And to those who don't know, a full second is a totatlly different LEAGUE of talent on a 400m kart track.) Once they were done, they packed up their helmets literally walked under the noses of the cameras and officials making a big deal about the red bull winner.

My question to red bull is, why the 13 to 17 age limit if it means that candidates like those two 20 year olds can't make it? If the finalists can barely beat ametuers, then maybe they should widen the "search".