As some of you may already know I have been doing class room instruction for a number of groups for a number of years. Its always a struggle to keep things fresh. Here is one thought for something I haven't done in years. For those of you that are new(er) students, would you find this type of class room session worth while? Feel free to weigh in regardless of your experience level.

Would folks be interested in a session, for the newer students, going over a car highlighting what should be looked at before going on track and then again after a session?

This would not just be a chalk talk but I'd use a car for demonstration (my car or some unsuspecting souls!). Pull a wheel to talk about brakes, pop the hood to point out how and where to check fluids (and what the changes mean!), torque wheel nuts using a torque wrench.etc.

Yes, I know to those that have experience this is all standard boring stuff but I certainly didn't know all what to do when I first started.

In any event, that is my idea. Please do let me know what you think or, ifyou have been in one of my class room sessions, pass along ideas on what you would like to see that I don't presently cover.

Ron Spencer

 

I've done something very similar to this for my students once. The majority of it went over their heads, as they were there to drive, not learn car maintenance. One girl was not quite strong enough to break a lug nut loose, and the whole thing just upset her after that. I think results will vary depending on the individual. Big surprise there.
Perhaps you could offer it to those interested as a supp. thing?

 

It sounds like a good idea - I'm sure there are plenty of students who never think to inspect CV boots, ball joints, and other long-life maintenance items. I know I never would have if I had started track events in a newer car (and not a busted old Spec RX-7).

As for the girl not being able to remove lug nuts - anybody who weighs more than 100lbs should be able to do it - just stand on the breaker bar and bounce. Only my truck and Caprice ever required more than 110ft/lb.

 

I would have found a session on what you are describing very helpful. I like the idea of it being optional as well. That way the folks who know their cars inside out could skip it, and those who are new to the “teching your own car” concept would feel more comfortable. I knew the basics but would have loved some more guidance at my first event. Even if it was all overwhelming, some of it would have hopefully sunk in.

If the girl madhatter refers to was upset because she couldn’t break a lug nut, she really shouldn’t be doing this. I am often not strong enough to do stuff to the car as easily as most men. I work around it or ask for help. Everyone needs to be aware of what it takes to prepare your car for being on the track and learn how to get it done.

Jen
(who’s tool box included a breaker bar after my first event )

 

I think it's a very good idea. I'm sure a lot of people know what to inspect, but not what they should be looking for when inspecting their car, myself included. This would be a good session to use for maybe the second or 3rd classroom session on the first day, depending on how the students are doing on track.

Brian

 

I think that is a good idea and should be done with all novices when they are not in session. While they are their to drive they should be there to do it safely. I would not make it optional because there would be the person or two who may be too "cool" or a know it all that may find out, oh I did not know that. I would also welcome other run groups to attend. At the last DE I attended one of the entrants was very knowledgable in his car handlling skills (no DEs but a lot of Solo 2s including divisional events). The classes for novices were open and he attended them and found parts of it useful. He said he had heard some things in there he had never thought about. So I would say yes, good idea.
Barry H.

 

i think it's a good idea. i built and do all the work on my own car, so i know it pretty well, but i would still attend to try and learn "one new thing."

 

Ron,

Thanks for being so proactive around developing the curriculum. I greatly appreciate the effort / commitment it takes to teach weekend after weekend.

I think the car 101 thing is a great idea - Maybe day 2 of the novice session.

As someone who went through 25 ish HPDE weekends before instructing / racing, I've had a LOT of opportunity to observe classroom sessions with a number of different organizations. At least 6 or so per "level".

In general, the biggest opportunity seemed to be that the curriculum did not really vary much as you rose through the ranks. i.e. 80% of it was the same in novice, intermediate, advanced, etc.

I would personally like to see more differentation across the different levels. In addition, I would like to see different topics covered within a level. I think this would provide a "richer" learning experience - most folks are going to go to several events at a given level before "moving up". It would be great if they had a chance to learn a new "topic" at each weekend - versus a standard "template".

I think your sugeestions on Car 101 is a great idea. One approach could be two have a standard agenda for each "level" that you use on the first day of class. This would be repeated at every weekend. You could on Day Two cover different topics on different weekends.

Potential day 2 topics could include Car 101, finding braking points, etc.

Any thoughts? - Phillip

 

Phillip,

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm kinda in the same boat as Ron since I've started doing the classroom for another organization. It sucks to look around the room and see a bunch of the same faces and know that all you've got is what they heard last time.

Ron,

If you do the car thing, I think it would be good to have everybody come to it. Some of the novices might not know their a$$ from an apex, but they might know a lot about cars from a mechanical perspective, and they might have some good stuff to contribute. Which brings me to a question...

How can I get the novices engaged in a discussion in the classroom? I don't have a problem with the intermediates, who usually are full of questions and comments, but the novices dont interact much and I'd like to change that.

 

Indeed sometimes it can be a challenge to get the student's involved and asking questions. What I will do is ask what questions/ trouble they might have with a particular turn. At first its common to have no replies. Of course then I egg them on by saying something to the effect of, and pick one: OK, class dismissed, or, you're all lying (smiling while I say that of course) or, so, that means you all are driving the whole course perfectly! Congratulations. Genrally all of these are greeted with some laughs which is, I think, a good thing!

At some point one brave soul will raise their hand and ask a question. It usually flows from there.

If no one raises their hand I'll ask them a question or two. Mine is a generally free flowing classroom with little set agenda. Of course there are things I want to cover but I fit those in around the student's questions.

I believe that the first goal for everyone should be to have fun. Flowing from that of course are safety and no impacts with solid stuff. Of course to have fun both of those must be true!

My feeling is that students do not come to "learn" stuff, they come to have fun on track. In my thinking my job as classroom instructor is to give them the important info to make them as safe as I can (flag review, both feet in, you know, that kind of info) and then make sure whatever questions they might have are answered (from where do I meet my instructor to how and when to line up for their sessions). At some point I will cover shuffle steering, heel and toe, opening the wheel and technique driven info but in general I figure if they leave the weekend with a smile we all have accomplished our goals!

Sorry for the long answer to a short question!

Good luck!

Ron

 

Ron,
i've not had the pleasure to be instructed by you at any of my HPDEs (all at Summit Point) but I think the car 101 is a good idea.
I do tend to disagree with your statement that everybody's main goal is come have fun at the track.
While it is certainly ONE of the goals, remember that NASA uses the HPDE system as a learning system for future racers. As such, I think it is important to teach the proper techniques, safety practices, etc. so that the aspiring racers will take something away from their weekend. While the supercomp schools should be teaching racing, I also feel that the HPDE classrooms should teach some of the techniques to be a faster, safer driver on the track. At least at the intermediate and above level.
The Novice group is mostly made up of folks who come to test the waters, or have fun, but I think the people that stick it out are more likely to either become instructors, or racers (or both!)

JMO.

 

Good points. In advanced groups I do talk about advanced techniques (for example how and why to induce and control rotation) but not in the newer groups. In NO case do we talk about the techniques used in racing. It is afterall, an HPDe not a racing school. Of course, one on one I'm always happy to discuss racing technique.

Ron

 

I'd almost suggest that you announce it as a strongly recommended option, and then anyone who doesn't show up for it gets the boot. Anyone who isn't interested in learning how to make sure their car is safe shouldn't be out there.

 

It has always been my experience that the car mechanical questions are answered with a tech sheet that needs to be completed before a car even gets on the race track. All of the people I've seen at track days/HPDE are fairly knowledgeable about their cars and really didn't need much explained to them. Obviously your experiences have been otherwise and the comments made by others here have covered this.

I have found that until a newbie has done one session on the track they will have little to no idea of what you are talking about when you try to explain the way around the track to them. The best experience for me was having Alan Haggai drive me around Road Atlanta in a Car Guys school for a few laps in his ITC Honda which gave me the best idea by far about getting around the track quickly. I have been an instructor for a few students and really would have liked to done this with the student as a passenger. There have been a couple of students that no matter how many times I explained the way around the course they just don't get it and plain scared the s**t out of me.

Making the classroom instruction mandatory as stated in the previous post should be the way things are already. In a SCCA Drivers School this is where the student is assigned an instructor and if you don't make the classroom you don't make the race track.

Explaining advanced techniques depends on the student as always. And also the type of car too I think. I am used to driving with a cage around me and I don't know how many advanced techniques I would explain to someone without the driver and car having proper safety equipment (race-prepared). Although I have seen people do stupid things during a Touring session, I think advanced techniques lend themselves to more errors as a driver works on pushing the limit. Yes, I've gone agricultural more than a few times.....

I will be doing the HPDE at Road Atlanta in June to see how NASA does things. Gonna have to start out in my Protege5, but hopefully my racing/instructor experience will count for something and I will be able to move up from HPDE2 to HPDE3 and play a bit in the ITS Prelude.

 

I saw a guy at a driver school lower a car off the jack with the lug nuts just started on the studs, get out his new torque wrench, tighten them up (wobble, wobble it goes on the studs until one was snug), and finally jam as hard as he could repeatedly against the wrench handle - CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK.

Yeah - it's a good idea.

K

 

Okay, MOST are fairly knowledgeable... Scary stuff.