I tried to search for this but came up with nothing, maybe I didn't use the correct words or spelling.

Anyway, my question is do ITB's make more horsepower than a regular or aftermarket IM? To me I would assume the ITB's would be pulling in warm engine bay air which would hurt performance. The IM is constrictive do to the length it pulls the air and the size of ports I would assume. But I guess the ITB's must be doing something good as alot of people are going to them. Can anyone help me out on this, or point me to a site that I can research? Don't mean to be a drag on the site.

Thanks
Mike

 

at i think like 20mph the outside air is equal temperature to the "under da hood" air. not sure on the exact speed, but its under 25mph

 

you know they make air boxes for itb's so you can run a pipe and get cold air..

itb's have a way better throttle responce, along with more air capacity and more accurate air measuring ability.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmuller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you know they make air boxes for itb's so you can run a pipe and get cold air..

itb's have a way better throttle responce, along with more air capacity and more accurate air measuring ability.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've seen road race cars just run some ducting to direct cooler air to them.

 

yeah, the only problem that people are running into is tunning them with the stock map, wich will have different reading screwing everything up.

 

So would it be worth the trouble and tuning to go to ITB's? My little brother wants to do this to his b16 but I don't know if it is worth the effort. If he will only gain little to no performance gains. The b16 has stock internals with i/h/e in a 93 civic hatch.

 

too minimal to gain much... if he had upgraded valvetrain and internal components for NA, the ITB's might help. But it's not really "worth it" at where he is.

 

ok cool, thanks for all the help everyone.

Mike

 

We're actually running down EG's with ITR engines with our setup. We're running a bone stock B16 with nothing but GSXR 1000 ITB's and a header. We actually roasted an STi the other night as well. And we're doing this with a stock ECU as well. Don't listen to anyone who doesn't have experience with ITB's as a well tuned setup is more than worth the effort.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmuller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah, the only problem that people are running into is tunning them with the stock map, wich will have different reading screwing everything up.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Stock MAP works fine, stock ECU parameters can suck. Normal TB/plenum car idles at -20 in/Hg, cruises at -10 in/Hg, and WOTs at 0 in/Hg. Normal ITB'd Honda idles at -10 in/Hg, cruises at -3 to -1 in/Hg, and WOTs at 0 in/Hg. Can you see the problem here? The stock ECU is mapped all wrong for ITBs.

Uberdata allows you to adjust MAP scalars and make your ECU read the MAP sensor the way it should for ITBs. Blake keeps promising an ITB ROM with alpha-n blending, he's a lagger, but it's in the works.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kendall &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We're actually running down EG's with ITR engines with our setup. We're running a bone stock B16 with nothing but GSXR 1000 ITB's and a header. We actually roasted an STi the other night as well. And we're doing this with a stock ECU as well. Don't listen to anyone who doesn't have experience with ITB's as a well tuned setup is more than worth the effort.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've gotten to drive the car in question... stock high mileage B16 with a header and a set of ITBs, and it is the BEST running stock B16 I've ever seen. I don't know why it runs so well, by all rights it shouldn't, but it does. It also throws out some sooty exhaust like a "safe rich" tune on a turbo car - tune isn't 100%. I've talked to a couple people who couldn't get stock ECUs to work well, though, so beware.


As far as the original question as to which is better, ITBs or TB/plenum... Keep in mind not all intake manifolds are created equally, and some of the top name racers are running speshul manifolds over ITBs. For the grassroots guy, I'd go ITBs. If you're a balla or have the right connections, that may not be so.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kal &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">too minimal to gain much... if he had upgraded valvetrain and internal components for NA, the ITB's might help. But it's not really "worth it" at where he is.</TD></TR></TABLE>

not really, many people compare peak hp from itbs to manifold and that doesn't say much. the mid range torque curve is where the ITBs will kill 99% of manifolds, there's one still out there that needs to be tested against ITBs, wish I coul dbe the guinea pig but ...

so a stock motor can get you a good 10-12 avg torque in the midrange, about 2-3hp peak, but who gives a **** about peak.

greg

 

you talkin bout the CF air research one?? that thing looks nasty...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kendall &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We're actually running down EG's with ITR engines with our setup. We're running a bone stock B16 with nothing but GSXR 1000 ITB's and a header. We actually roasted an STi the other night as well. And we're doing this with a stock ECU as well. Don't listen to anyone who doesn't have experience with ITB's as a well tuned setup is more than worth the effort.</TD></TR></TABLE>

AMEN to that. i too know several people running ITBs on stock ECUs. and they're quick.


i will have my set-up done in about a month. I'm actually making custom runners instead of hose clampin' dat ****.

 

How on God's green earth did you tune your OBD II ECU to run with ITBs?? I've been trying to figure out so I can run ITBs on my H22 and have a sweet running car.

 

ITB's too much money for my low income... a cai is good enough for me. Not worth it.

 

b16 ITB''s in what car.... can't believe you beat STi's and R swaped hb's with that setup... if that's the case I might look into it

 

look at what he used for ITB's though, it's not a custom aftermarket set up, he used some off of a bike, which decreases the cost by a long shot...

 

Couldn't you make some kind of vacuum manifold to run the map sensor off of??

 

Some good stuff in these threads

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=858761

In this thread read what 2point2 says

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=889860

I had them on my car for a week or so, my opinion is there nice and all but they do have some done sides, one of the downsides is the gas mileage. I did not have mine fully tuned but even with them tuned I can't see someone getting good gas mileage on them. I put $20 in my tank every 4 days. The power they made was really nice though even when they were untuned even though when I had them on the power disappeared but I'm pretty sure it was because I fouled some plugs out. Another thing you have to look out for is the fiacv, if you don't do anything about it you will not have a fast idle and I would hate to imagine what that would be like in the winter time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NY_Sucks &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">b16 ITB''s in what car.... can't believe you beat STi's and R swaped hb's with that setup... if that's the case I might look into it </TD></TR></TABLE>

It's in an EG hatch.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by highpsief &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Couldn't you make some kind of vacuum manifold to run the map sensor off of??</TD></TR></TABLE>

We've experimented with several vacuum manifolds and have always gotten the setup to work better with tee'd off lines coming from the runners.

 

ITB+TUNNING=

 

ya talk about bad mileage.....when getting mine going i went through 10 buck sitting in the shop lol ....but that was reving and fouling plugs and disconnecting line ...im in the processe of it running better now but its suprisingly good driving normal....plus it souns awsome .......i hope the wife likes it cause she drives it more then i do

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by machine4321 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ya talk about bad mileage.....when getting mine going i went through 10 buck sitting in the shop lol ....but that was reving and fouling plugs and disconnecting line ...im in the processe of it running better now but its suprisingly good driving normal....plus it souns awsome .......i hope the wife likes it cause she drives it more then i do </TD></TR></TABLE>

With good engine management and a good tuner, gas milage can be at least as good as stock, if not better.

 

Just curious when I had mine installed I had a surging idle and no fast idle at all, has anyone found a fix to this ?