I just ordered a Hondata Intake manifold gasket to try and get my charge temps down . So from all the posts i saw they were deffault as the Race Version and if you wanted coolant flow you just cut open a slot to let it pass.

Now when i got mine it already has the coolant port in it. I called Wiredspeed and they said thats all they stock and they are checking to se3e if Hondata even sells the true Race Version anymore? Is there another way i can cap off that port without worrieing about it leaking under load? I wanna elminate all the lines to the IM , but i dont wanna worry about leaks, i have enuff probs , lol.


Let me know what you guys have done, thanks.

 

if you cap off the lines, wont that promote more heating on the intake manifold and TB?? I never understood this concept because I though the coolant was to HELP it stay cooler, so why cap it off?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you cap off the lines, wont that promote more heating on the intake manifold and TB?? I never understood this concept because I though the coolant was to HELP it stay cooler, so why cap it off? </TD></TR></TABLE>


exactly....why would you want to stop COOLant flow???

doesn't make sence to me....

 

Thats what i thougt too until i really thought about it , the coolant is more like heatant, lol. when the coolant gets hot inside the motor its gonna disperse hot coolant into the manifold too. which causes heat soak as far as i look at it and have seen on my car. Those lines are really going to the TB and Manifold for winter time. it allows the car to get warmer quicker it looks like. and when its blistering cold out i guess helps the throttle body not to freeze shut maybe?

thats the way it looks to me , but i need to know how a good and leak free way to block these lines off since i got the gasket with the coolant port in it already

 

the water will get hotter than the air, the manifold doesn't produce heat, so its not something that needs water going thru it, so the water is actually warming the manifold, cooler manifold will have cooler intake air temperature

cooler air is more dense

 

Even though the manifold doesnt produce heat, it absorbs it from the motor, either by direct contact through the gasket or by heat blowing on it from the motor. It gets very hot to the touch! I still think that the COOLant, even though its hot, around 200 degrees (give or take), is helping to COOL the manifold. Although I guess with the Hondata gasket, the IM/TB will not be quite as warm so the coolant may actually be warming it up instead.

Id say go out, beat on the car for a couple minuntes, get a laser temp gauge and record some temps to see how hot the manifold is actually getting. If its hotter than 200(coolant temp), then you know the coolant is needed to help cool it. If its less than 200, then the coolant is probably just making IM warmer.

 

Perfectly explanation . I wasnt gonna order one either, but seeing how my coolant temps were getting to like 200-209 under load, then the intake temps on the dyno were getting to 146 or so under load. . . . big loss of power. ON the street its a little better, but still hotter than i like

 

hondata should still offer version.. thats what i went with when i first installed everything.. whats the advantage of blocking coolant return? - it lowers intake temps.. i didn't encounter any overheating problems, but didn't want to worry about this causing problems, so i had the hole cut for coolant return.

i ran with coolant blocked last summer and then i haven't driven car for several month due to downtime, and this summer i'm running with hole in gasket, but i can't remember if it really made difference or not..

i plan on dealing with heat by adding hood vents and oil cooler.. whenever time and money allows.

 

sorry i can't help you with your situation, ive used the race gasket on cars i've built, with good results, and its reuseable

 

pete I edited

 

i will prob put a hood vent in eventually, but im trying to steer clear of that right now . i wanna try other tihngs 1st. oil cooler is coming too, but that doesnt help charge temp probs.


trust me , hot liquid feeding into your intake manifold is no good for making power. . . . esp on a hot *** day on the east coast at the track . **** or even on the dyno

 

yeah but like I said it depends how hot your manifold is actually getting. and also unless you can see a drastic change in temps, I dont think you will notice much difference in power, especially with your setup pete, where insane amounts of heat are going to be produced.

I was also thinking about venting my hood to help dicipate heat but havent gotten around to it yet.

I say just get a nitrous intercooler sprayer

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i will prob put a hood vent in eventually, but im trying to steer clear of that right now . i wanna try other tihngs 1st. oil cooler is coming too, but that doesnt help charge temp probs.


trust me , hot liquid feeding into your intake manifold is no good for making power. . . . esp on a hot *** day on the east coast at the track . **** or even on the dyno</TD></TR></TABLE>

Neither is condensation and freezing of the t-body during winter....i doubt j00'll see a larger delta T when the car is actually running at speed (like a race track)....a degree or two would be my guess.


Although it's prolly a g00t mod for drag racing folks that see that car idling for a while.

 

my manifold is getting hot enuff to where it burns my hand to the touch. . . its hot, trust me .

all the heat my car is producing , anything to bring it down will help. cooler charge = more power, plain and simple.


the intercooler kits make you run hella lean when on it , so a smart person tunes with it on to compensate for that change. but then when off it , it will make the car run richer by quite a bit, so then your losing power all over again .

ive run many options over in my head for a while now .

 

http://www.hondata.com/heatshield.html

read the how and why of the workings... they've already done the datalogging for you, and done dyno comparo's. YES, it is cooler - and even more so if you block off the colant port.

I am running the RACE version on my hatch with NO problems. You will need to reroute some coolant lines though, and I'll find the link for you...

BUT, you have to specifically order the RACE version, or they will send you the gasket with the coolant port already cut out. You will also need to modify the coolant flow path with a "T" and some extra 5/8" hose OR drill the thermostat... otherwise your car will overheat (I made this mistake initially).

I think outlaw engineering sells similar gaskets - and t-body ones made of the same material, etc...

*EDIT*

I found the pertinent/ relevant links:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=596485

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=230117

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=228776


Modified by Black R at 3:22 PM 5/24/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my manifold is getting hot enuff to where it burns my hand to the touch. . . its hot, trust me .

the intercooler kits make you run hella lean when on it , so a smart person tunes with it on to compensate for that change. but then when off it , it will make the car run richer by quite a bit, so then your losing power all over again .
</TD></TR></TABLE>

If its getting THAT hot to burn your hand, wouldnt having much COOLER coolant (respectively) flowing through it HELP cool it down, along with the gasket? I would definitely run the gasket, but I might experiment to see which way actually helps keep the IM/TB cooler. Edit: Ill be checking out that link Ken provided

Didnt realize the nitrous sprayer made it that much leaner, Ill have to revise my plans then and do some more research

 

Be careful not to limit coolant flow through the head, as I was having some temperature problems in my turbo car.

Oil cooler should help a bit as well (as you mentioned).

Good luck.

 

if you think of it logically, how will hot fluid cool something down? its getting hot becuase of the fluid.

Ed how did you do yours. Hondata said to drill holes in the thermostat. But i found a link to reroute the hoses. I am gonna do that, but im not sure if it wil be ok to use like a vacum cap or some kind of heavy duty plug to plug the hole up coming from the head.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you think of it logically, how will hot fluid cool something down? its getting hot becuase of the fluid.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Heat/Temperature flow is always in the direction of cooler temperatures... entropy is a bitch

So, if your charge and manifold temps are lower than your coolant temps, you're heating up the manifold/charge.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you think of it logically, how will hot fluid cool something down? its getting hot becuase of the fluid. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I said relatively. If something is 500 degrees, and you pour 200 degree water on it, its gonna "cool" it, even though the 200 degree water is still damn hot. catch my drift?

 

When Steve put my car together he must have had one that was solid/uncut/race version.

I never did get a good look at how the coolant lines were re-routed, sorry.

 

Think the other direction though. if you have something thats 200 degrees then drop something 500 degrees in it , what happens? the 200 degree thing will get hotter. . . correct?

I try not to think relatively. Thats where everyone goes wrong. Making things too difficult. To make power think logically. feeding a 200 degree water source into an area that normally due to cooler air flow from the intercooler sees whatever like 100 degrees. That addition of the 200 degree water in the mix is making it get closer to the degree of the water. . . . in turn like i said , im seeing 146 or so intake temps from my datalogging

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Think the other direction though. if you have something thats 200 degrees then drop something 500 degrees in it , what happens? the 200 degree thing will get hotter. . . correct? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Correct

Q = M*C*Delta T y0!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Think the other direction though. if you have something thats 200 degrees then drop something 500 degrees in it , what happens? the 200 degree thing will get hotter. . . correct?

I try not to think relatively. Thats where everyone goes wrong. Making things too difficult. To make power think logically. feeding a 200 degree water source into an area that normally due to cooler air flow from the intercooler sees whatever like 100 degrees. That addition of the 200 degree water in the mix is making it get closer to the degree of the water. . . . in turn like i said , im seeing 146 or so intake temps from my datalogging </TD></TR></TABLE>

Your best bet would be to get air temp reading before the t-body and compare it to the reading of the IAT sensor. That way you'll be able to tell how hot the air coming from the interc00ler really is, and how much it gets heated up in the manifold.

Are you running programmable ECU by any chance?

 

big aluminum radiator with 90% water, 10% coolant, and bottle of watter wetter

will increase the cooling capacity of the cooling sytem
lower water temperature, will still lower the temperature of the head, and the cylinder sleeves

lowering those temps will do good for your car as well


before the race gasket install, i couldn't touch the manifold bare handed
after the race gasket install, i could rest my hand on it without problems