I am thinking of putting the crower stage three in my R motor. I know that i need to have cam gears and a valvetrain upgrade. I have a Vafc already so that will help me when I go to get them tuned. What other upgrades will i need to get the most power out of them? Injectors? Higher compression?

 

I really don't know anything about these cams, though.

I do trust cams from toda and jun because they have been proven in many applications. You might want to contact Jeff @ Atomic/ Import Review/ ?..... He seems to have had a lot of experience with various setups.....

 

that deserves a big in itself.
you don't know anything about 'em but you give them a thumb down?
you're cool.


by the way, these cams aren't as good as JUN or Toda, but they are better than ITR cams. I think you'll need to upgrade your valvetrain because the VTEC lobes are big on these things..

 

From all the posts I have read on cams, I think the deciding factor is how well the cams were installed. I mean, a cam is a cam; assuming the things hold up in terms of craftsmanship and quality, it shouldn't matter whose you get. You just need to make sure they are installed correctly and that you have the needed mods to support the cams.

 

Hey Black R, I had a question for you a while ago that I never asked. You said your car is putting about 175 to the wheels with Toda B's "courtesy of some safe settings by B18cxr". Now, I know Jack knows his ****, and you obviously want to keep your motor from going up in smoke. But, if you're not going for anything over 180whp, why even have cams to begin with and spend the extra 1000 bux or so? Wouldn't I/H/E and a VAFC with some tuning get you there without any cams/valvetrain upgrades? This is not a flame or a taunt by any means, just an honest question.

 

I agree. Good post, Ross.
With DC JDM 4-1, AEM intake, AEM cam gears, and 12 thou milled of the head (11:1) .. I hit 179.6 and 131.1 at the wheels, with stock ECU and stock exhaust.

I think the reason for Ken's low numbers is the fact he is running stock exhaust and stock header( I think?), and also he is running stock compression. All of us know how much compression helps with cams.

 

I Like the Sig Ross, and yes he is

 

With an AEM, Toda Header, Carsound Cat, Tanabe Racing Medallion (bottlenecks cut out), and V-afc, my R put out a mere 173.9 whp. After the installation of Spec B cams, gears, and valvetrain, the peak number jumped to 184.7. Are cams worth it? I say absolutely.

Remember that it's not just the peak numbers I'm after. I'm concerned with midrange even more...

 

IPS Mike - glad you like the sig. MJ being back in business makes all my problems go away How's the car? When are we going to see you in the metro area?

Mike K - well, if it's true, the stock exhaust/header/compression would explain the #'s.

Jason - I guess every dyno/day/car is different so comparisons are hard. My R put down 172whp and 125tq with very minor mods (Icebox and timing advance). And I also saw MonkeyTruckR's car put down 173, stock so he claims. (I guess the yellow ITRs really are faster than the black ones) So after I saw my numbers I decided I wouldnt need cams or any sort of large power adder. Did you ever baseline your car? I am guessing the #'s were in the mid-150s range. It sucks that some of us have to put more time/effort/money into modding than others to get the same results, I guess it's a quirk of owning a car like this. Glad you guys liked my posts.

 

Hehe...

I don't know about the yellow being faster. I'm sure some people here in NC would disagree

Yep, you probably had "one of the good ones".

 

In tunning Ken's and Jason's car...the main difference is the exhaust.....Ken's got a cork and Jason doesn't. Remember Jason's is stock FP/injectors/ECU and a cat. No black, aftermarket magic crap.


Compression will be your friend.

 

cork? obviously you're saying Ken's is more restrictive but what exactly is the cork?

 

stock exhaust + bottlenecks for starters...

 

i believe Ken R0cker is running a toda header + test pipe now. when he 1st put the cams in he was stock exhaust. it'll be interesting to see what he dyno's at when we have Atl dyno day dec 1

 

Hey mike, thanks for the Err well, I take it with a grain of salt (as with everything on the internet). I gave the crowers my because I would never put them in my car. I'm sure they make a great product, but I wouldn't trust them for myself. Silly me having my own opinion. If they're so great, why don't you have a shot at them? I'm all for whatever makes you happy, but didn't want to post some long-winded explanation of why I thought so. I take it you guys want to know? But this guy is a relative newbie, so I decided to just give him the simple answer and give details if they were asked for... I even suggested some cams that many people on this board have experience with (including yourself).

And for everyone else concerned with how my car's running, to you too!

To help set the record straight for those of you who are so concerned:

I got the b's, toda valvetrain, and cam gears, along with vafc as my 2nd mod. (The first one being the mandatory aem cai.) I knew the stock header and exhaust would be restrictive, but I also wanted to see 'what would happen...' I obviously didn't know too much because I was actually surprised to have lost 2whp peak! I'm not the only one who got this surprise, I believe Tuan (Michael Delaney) also got this rude awakening with his B's. I will admit I expected to gain a little whp... But I also remember your criticism Mike K at that time as well. Thanks for your input. Yes, this was with Jack's safe settings (thanks again Jack!) and I have no problems with detonation or otherwise. In fact, my mileage got 5mpg better - even running so damn rich (go figure). Also, my car felt stronger and pulled harder than other itr's that were stock at that time - even though my whp was equal to theirs... Weird.

Well, fast forward to present and I now have a toda header to go along with those mods and my output jumped up by 12whp just bolting it onto the car. That was open header, btw... Yes, this is an untuned setup and the last time I went to the dyno they cut short my session b/c they said it was too loud!

Oh well, so I mated up the stock exhaust and a test pipe and the car is quiet again.

But it seems to pull pretty nicely on stock and mildly modded (i/h/e) itr's... Go figure again! Remember I still have the stock cork (catback exhaust)...

Anyway, the next steps for me? Well, glad you are all rooting for me: I was going to get a hytech header and twin loop exhaust, but in the meantime (because the wait from John can be lengthy) I'm going with a simple 2.5" setup with n1 can and the header I have now...

We'll see where that puts me on 12/1 when Jack has another go round with my new setup.

Hey, either like the toda b's or don't like em. I don't care. I already stated my opinion of the crowers before. I like the cams I have. I may try a jun 3 setup on my beater though... But that's farther down the road and assuming I ever get over modding the R.

Also, theres a guy on this board who goes by ?HX Guy" I think. He was running crower cams in his b20 setup and seemed to like it before he hydrolocked it recently. He should be able to give you a good opinion of them if you're really interested.

to all

 

Actually, I have tried all three of Crowers cam grinds for VTEC and 2 of their LS grinds. Ran 'em on the street, ran 'em on the track.
I can say the road race cams and the 403 cams are better than ITR cams for sure.. but they don't compare to Toda A or Jun2/3.

i don't think the crowers are deserving of a thumbs down, but they aren't gonna get two thumbs up either.

 

agreed.

 

Well I have the crower 63402's (stage 2) and I like them however I have not had any expericence with toda's or Jun cams with the 63402's in my B16A they pull all the way to 9300 (highest I ever take my engine) Bottom end in these (below 5k) seems about stock but once you hit 6k they pull really hard and vtec is loud as hell.
Still have'nt tuned them in yet but I would say they make a good amount of power. Oh one last comment the idle is a little rough and high 1200 k but they also make a 63402A that has the stock idle lobes.

 

quote: ***Jason - I guess every dyno/day/car is different so comparisons are hard. My R put down 172whp and 125tq with very minor mods (Icebox and timing advance). And I also saw MonkeyTruckR's car put down 173, stock so he claims. (I guess the yellow ITRs really are faster than the black ones)***

bleh, it dynoed at 174+whp UNCORRECTED; figure 167-168 corrected. it is BLACK.

my own take, after sifting through hundreds of cam posts, personally i would go with spec a. the spec b require a lot of very expensive modications to produce optimal power. at most, spec a require different valve springs and titanium retainers on a b18c5.

 

hey i had a black itr, and it dynoed 7hp more than my yellow one.....some r motor's are built better than other's. here in florida it is really humid, so it affects the power alot.....

 

thanks for all of the imput!