A friend sent me a picture of his gear that was recently destroyed while testing his car out...this happened during a dyno pass, shifting had nothing to do with it

All that I know is that he has a lot of power, and that it was a new tranny that was cryo treated.

Any thoughts? I don't know his setup, or his power level...anyone have any ideas on the power that it takes to do this?

Austin

Sorry about the size, forgot that we-todd-did doesn't resize the pictures for you.







Modified by Austin at 5:59 PM 5/14/2004

 

shift from 3rd into 2nd at 9000rpm?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bambooluv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">shift from 3rd into 2nd at 9000rpm?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well...it didn't happen while shifting, the gear came apart while still pulling through the gear, just committed suicide.


Modified by Austin at 5:17 PM 5/14/2004

 

a wrx (haha, see sig or wherever it tells you what i drive), or REALLY irresponsible shifting.

if not horrid shifting, then bad luck.

if not bad luck, then a pretty fair amount of power overe stock.

 

maybe it had a hairline fructure in it already, and just decided to go at that prticular time.

or you have some mad power

 

maybe the cryo process was overdone... and made the metal brittle... its all i cna think of... either that or this was done by a 700-800 hp car..
i've herd of this happening before tho...


Ed-

 

That has happened to me before. The resaon my gears got destroyed was due to wheel hop.

 

Cryogenic treatment, if not done in the correct sequence of heat treatment, has no real affect on the parts being treated. I would challenge any person selling this "after treatment" to show quantitive data that shows this does have a positive effect on the parts being treated. If not done within a specified time period between the solution and ageing heat treatment of a specific alloy there is NO beneficial results. Note the following quote-
"Cryogenics, or deep freezing is done to make sure there is no retained Austenite during quenching. When steel is at the hardening temperature, there is a solid solution of Carbon and Iron, known as Austenite. The amount of Martensite formed at quenching is a function of the lowest temperature encountered. At any given temperature of quenching there is a certain amount of Martensite and the balance is untransformed Austenite. This untransformed austenite is very brittle and can cause loss of strength or hardness, dimensional instability, or cracking. Quenches are usually done to room temperature. Most medium carbon steels and low alloy steels undergo transformation to 100 % Martensite at room temperature. However, high carbon and high alloy steels have retained Austenite at room temperature. To eliminate retained Austenite, the temperature has to be lowered. In Cryogenic treatment the material is subject to deep freeze temperatures of as low as -185°C (-301°F), but usually -75°C (-103°F) is sufficient. The Austenite is unstable at this temperature, and the whole structures becomes Martensite. This is the reason to use Cryogenic treatment."
All you people selling this treatment please show us the <U>data</U> that VERIFIES that the "after the fact " treatment dones any considerable benefit to the material.
Alfred Nolan
dadwithgas@yahoo.com
Saenz Racing Transmissions
For your information" We Do" cryogenically treat all of our gears and shafts at the correct point in the heat treat process so that it does create a beneficial result in the material. And we have the data to back it up!!!!

 

We did that twice to a ats third gears. One on the dyno 3rd gear 7k only 230 hp. once at the track 3rd gear not during a shift. went back to stock and it never happened agian

 

Here's a research study on the correct process which I assume your talking about:

"Researchers have found that the effects of shallow cryogenic tempering (-110°F) is minimal unless it is performed as part of the initial heat treat cycle. Heat treating is what gives steel its hardness as well as its toughness, wear resistance and ductility. Even performed properly, heat treating cannot remove all of the retained austenite (large, unstable particles of carbon carbide) from a steel. Proper heat treating is a key part in increasing a parts toughness, durability, wear resistance, strength and Rockwell hardness.
The beneficial changes that occur as a result of the heat treat process do not actually take place during the heating, but, rather from the cooling or "quenching" from the high temperature. (The benefits of the quench do not stop at room temperature, as many alloys will continue to show significant improvements as the quench temperature nears absolute zero.) While it is impossible to actually achieve -459.67°F, (a molecular zero movement state that eliminates all stress), deep cryogenic tempering temperatures are very efficient and cost effective in increasing dimensional stability, increasing wear resistance and performance of most alloys."


Modified by Rboosted717 at 8:23 PM 5/16/2004

 

The point I was trying to make is that there are services out there offering to cryogenically treat parts after the fact. If the parts were heat treated months or in some cases years ago show me the data that the process has any beneficial affect on these parts. We know that the procees works when done in the proper sequence in the inital heat treatment. All the data that is ever presented is of parts that had the cryogenic treatment in the normal heat treat cycle. Where is the before and after data of gear sets that have been sent in for this treatment? What percent of increased toughness, hardness, strength can one expect from this treatment to a set of stock gears? I would want some data before I would spend my money on this type of service so that I could make an intelligent decision where it goes. How much does it cost? Was everything in the gear set treated(shafts and hubs) or just the gears? Until I see this new data I must assume that it is money being thrown out the window, use the money and buy a good set of gears that have had the process done in the proper sequence.
Alfred Nolan
Saenz Racing Transmissions
http://www.saenzperformance.com

 

At least your gear has some teeth left on it...lol...I did a 4th gear pass on the Dyno last year that did that at 9500rpm under full load...just as I was about to lift. I shut it down and tried to roll the car through the gears to check them out....when I got to 4th it was in Neutral..lol..Took it apart and change them out..good inspection of the rest, clean and off to the races....but my gear looked like the teeth were machined off...

Howard