This is an exercise purely for fun. I hope it starts some arguments, but friendly ones.

The question is...
At VIR, which of the following cars would most likely win a head to head 5 lap sprint race:
1. Bone Stock 2000 Type R Daily Driver on street rubber (not Azenis type race street rubber)
2. Fully Prepared 1999 Civic Si Showroom Stock C car
3. Fully Prepared 1989 Civic S ITC car

I chose these because all three of them are vastly different but can be built/bought for about the same investment monetarily, give or take $1000 or so.

Assume the following:
1. Dry weather. 75 degrees. Partial cloud.
2. Drivers of equal skill
3. Green flag is taken 3 wide at S/F with the ITR on the outside and ITC car on "pole."
4. All mechanicals are working perfectly in all cars.
5. The race cars are on race rubber.

So, the Big Bad Hype R obviously takes it. Right?

What do you think and why (show your work for full credit ).

 

VIR full?
is #3 an Si ? or standard?

 

Looks like he said S, as in STD, as in VD.

My guess is the ITC car and SSC car take eachother out as the SSC car tries to make a late pass near the end of the last lap and the ITR wins by default from 2 seconds back, nursing a chunked tire because the fool didn't buy Azenis.

 

Alright I'll play...
Based on the fact most track records I've seen have been on the average 2 seconds a lap faster for the SSC Civics over ITC Civics (looking at Mid Ohio (handling) and Nelson Ledges (HP)). I've raced at VIR before and it seemed to be a even spread of HP and handling I would say the SSC car takes the ITC car.

As for the ITR vs. SSC Civic Si, based fully on street rubber against a full dot racing tire I'd give this one to the SSC car also. 35 more hp wouldn't help enough be that much slower out of the corners.

 

My guess would be the ITR. My first guess would be to eliminate #3 purely because the 2 long straights at VIR and don't think it could keep up with #1 and #2. I then narrowed those two choices down by knowing both how the stock suspension on my 00 si feels compared to a stock ITR. I haven't driven the 00 on race tires but I'm not sure its going to gain much on an ITR even on street tires. Then I think the lsd and power will give the ITR the advantage. All of this just an educated guess.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSlowdotOrg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nursing a chunked tire because the fool didn't buy Azenis. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You havent seen my Azenis, I take it.....

At least they dont slow down much when they chunk

 

"Stock" and "SSC" suspension aren't necessarily the same things.

RJ: Did you chunk it in a 5-lap sprint race with an ITC and SSC car?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSlowdotOrg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">RJ: Did you chunk it in a 5-lap sprint race with an ITC and SSC car? </TD></TR></TABLE>

More like a 10 lap drive the ******* wheels off it trying to chase down an M3 LTW on victoracers at CMP... almost...

FWIW, the OEM RE010's are not much slower or harder than Falkens. They might be a bit slower in the corners but you'll pick it up on the long straights (195/55 vs. 205/50 and less weight to drag).

 

I remember that post. A worthy goal.

Update: The SSC car was DSQ'ed for a shaved cylinder head outside of manual tolerances.

 

The Civic is an ITC car.
2140lbs. 80ish whp, shitbox 4 speed tranny.

This is kind of like "Clue".

RJ did it in Hogpen with a chunked tire.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSlowdotOrg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"Stock" and "SSC" suspension aren't necessarily the same things.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

As far as I know for the 99-00 civic si it now is. It may have changed but they took away the trunk kit for it a year or two ago.

 

My vote is the SSC car

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSlowdotOrg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I remember that post. A worthy goal.

Update: The SSC car was DSQ'ed for a shaved cylinder head outside of manual tolerances. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well Rich, Since you've made three post and no real attempt to answer well consider your status "non-guru."

And throw track records out. They are often set in ideal situations and can be anywhere from 1 to 2 seconds off what you see *most of the time*
Think of each cars strengths and weaknesses vs. the others.
The ITC car is obviously going to whoop all manner of *** in the esses and South Bend, but can it stretch enough gap to make it down the back straight with the lead?
Hmmmm... Thats a really good question.

 

The SSC Civic is going to take that race, with the ITR and ITC car battling it out for second. Just depends if there is enough straight away for the R to pull a large enough gap on the ITC car. But the R can easily block the ITC car in the corners

Remember the SSC Civic Si gets a trunk kit of a 22mm Comptech rear swaybar and rear lower tie bar.

But give the R some real rubber and watch it run away...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Remember the SSC Civic Si gets a trunk kit of a 22mm Comptech rear swaybar and rear lower tie bar.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I thought the trunk kit is not allowed anymore. If it still is my opinion would change. The comptech bar completely changes the si.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ryan12321 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

they took away the trunk kit for it a year or two ago.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Correct.

 

Really? I was talking to an SSC Si driver earlier this year and he said that they still had them (or so I thought). They took it away for one year but I thought they gave it back after everyone b!tched.

 

I dont agree with you throwing out track records. Your reason doesn't make sense to me. Both cars are the fastest in their class with the best weather with the best drivers. So the same great cars with the same great drivers would have the same gap in non-perfect conditions. Track records are legitimate means of comparison.

 

They still get the rear swaybar and brace.

Wasnt there more to the trunk kit when they were first classed in SSC?

 

I say the Type R takes it because he should be able to walk away from them at the start due to more power and possibly less weight than the SSC car. Then all he has to do is protect the line through the corners. Doesn't matter if you're faster overall if you can't pass.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Really? I was talking to an SSC Si driver earlier this year and he said that they still had them (or so I thought). They took it away for one year but I thought they gave it back after everyone b!tched.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe. They keep changing it.
Assume no trunk kit on the Si.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Assume no trunk kit on the Si.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Without the rear bar that thing is a wallowing, understeering shitpile pig. IMHO of course

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They still get the rear swaybar and brace.

Wasnt there more to the trunk kit when they were first classed in SSC?</TD></TR></TABLE>

There might have been different shocks too, IIRC. But I'm pretty sure they still get the rear swaybar.

Why are we discounting that if it is allowed? So we have a semi-prepared ITC car now. I assume he will be on a set of shredded/delaminated Kumhos too.

 

I choose the SSC car.

Why...

The ITR will lead down to turn 1 and then never again. Both the race cars will spank it in, and getting off of 1. IF they don't get by him there, they will in the hooks and snake. By the time the ITR gets to Oak Tree he's out of it. He might be able to reel in the C car at the end of the straight, but it'll all be lost before they reach the front straight again.
Remember, the street tires will hurt cornering AND braking. Overpowering the other 2 cars down the straights will be lost right back (seriously) in the braking zones and after lap 2 he's likely not even in the race anymore.

The ITC car would likely be the first to Oak Tree on lap one, but the SSC car would be close enough to overtake on the back straight. They would swap positions the entire race with the ITC car owning NASCAR to Oak Tree but giving it all up from the tree to turn 1.
In the end, it'd be close, but I think the SSC car would take it powering out of Hog Pen.
Type R... Way back there.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRXSiR71777@aol.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont agree with you throwing out track records. </TD></TR></TABLE>

OK.
I know I can swap positions with fast Showroom Stock cars all day long in my ITC car if I want to (which I don't). If we were racing head to head, neither of us would be setting any track records. We'd be in each others way in the areas where each car excels, which are opposites.

 

i'd go with the SSC car as well.

being able to have full race rubber makes such a huge difference. i'd guess the tires on the R would probably go away before the end of lap 5 since we're just considering basic street rubber. i don't know much about VIR, but from my understanding it's a big fast track, so i'd give 2nd to the R. if the ITC car came up on it (the R will obviously be in front after the start), the R could block through the corners as per the previous discussion on the topic, and pull out a big enough gap on the straights that the ITC wouldn't even have a chance to outbreak it.

of course, the SSC car isn't exactly "stock," negating some of the hp difference between it and the R, with big advantages in handling and braking with the addition of the rollcage, slicks, and rear trunk package deal.

1)SSC
2)R
3)ITC