Lately I've been spending a lot of time figuring out how I can be a better more consistent driver. Obviously the first factor is seat time, but considering for the past 3 months Ive been driving an autocross course 3-4 times a week for 30-130 laps per day I am at a max for seat time.

We have one other guy on the team who is just simply faster than me and even when I look at the Data aq I find that the only place he is beating me in corner exit speed, so I concentrate on that, but its helped very minimally.

So basically Im feeling pretty burned out (never thought I would ever say that) and its beginning to frustrate the hell out of me. Does anyone have any wisdom to share? Or better yet, is anyone in the watkins glen region want to come watch the Cornell competition drivers drive this weekend and tell me how to get faster?

That is all,
Matt

 

Have you read "going faster" ?

There's alot of good info in the book on analyzing data aq stuff.

 

what did you try to do to catch up to him in corner exit speed?

 

Probably needs to look further ahead

 

I'm going to take a guess from my experience in such monsters as he's driving and throw this out there:

He's being a ton more smooth with throttle application and can get into the gas earlier because of it? Some FSAE drivers I've talked to are super ginger with the gas mid-corner because they know they can't floor it mid corner or it's instant doughnuts, but they don't want to go to part throttle because it's A) not mapped very well in their ECU yet or B) just haven't thought to try it.

 

Sometimes slower is faster...

RR guys will know what that means.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Have you read "going faster" ?

There's alot of good info in the book on analyzing data aq stuff.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Best driving book I've ever read. I've used so much from what I learned in there.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ryan12321 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Best driving book I've ever read. I've used so much from what I learned in there.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed! Although I've only read 3 driving books so far I find myself always going back and picking out a part or chapter and reading and rereading it over and over.

 

Well exit speed, even if it's the only thing different between the two of you on the DA sys., is everything. Several things come to mind.

1. You might not be slowing down enough entering a corner. If your friend enters marginally slower, he can get on the power earlier.

2. You might not be rotating the car enough. Trailbraking is often your friend I find.

3. You might be applying too much power too soon, scrubbing the tires with terminal understeer, and as a result you're at max power later than him.

4. Here's something to try - change something on the car. If you're frustrated and slow, what's the worst that can happen? You're now frustrated and slow still, but if you don't like the car you can change it back. Or change it in a different way.

5. Similarly, you can change the driver. Try a different line. If you see someone fast drive a corner totally different than you, ask them why, and then go try it. Maybe it'll work. Can't hurt.

6. It might be mental. I'll elaborate.

I drive my best when I'm chasing someone. If there's some fast friend of mine up there (Catch 22 comes to mind...), for whatever reason, I perform better. Now if I'm trying to hold someone off, I start to make mistakes. I spend so much time looking in the mirror to see if they're gaining that I stop looking ahead, I start throwing the car around, and it's just generally no good, and I get caught. My own fault and I need to fix it.

One final thought. If it's stopped being fun, step away for a couple months and don't think about it. This chit costs way too much money to not be a good time. If you're truly burned out, and not just simply down on yourself because you've plateaued, step back for three months. I started to hate racing last year because I'd throw money at the car and slow down as a result...so I walked away for a while. Only now, nearly a year later, am I starting to want to get back in it.

(Sorry that got so long...topic is near and dear to me...)

 

Thanks for the advice guys

Yeah Ive read going faster, Caroll Smiths stuff, and Bob Bondurants book.

I think that his throttle application is a little smoother than mine and thats where his speed is coming from. We have looked at lateral accel, and entrance speed and exit speed, but never overlayed it with throttle percentage I kind of feel dumb now for not thinking of that good tip!

I too am grateful he is on the team because its made my driving about 5x better by not being on top and clawing to get there.

RJ arent you supposed to be looking right at your front wheels whats up with this "looking ahead ****"

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Audipwr1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but never overlayed it with throttle percentage I kind of feel dumb now for not thinking of that good tip!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats the best thing you can do

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">RJ arent you supposed to be looking right at your front wheels whats up with this "looking ahead ****" </TD></TR></TABLE>

No way, thats too far ahead. Look back at the apex you just missed, and think about it!

 

No time to take off...competition starts the 17th.

At least you get to drive. I run around with a wrench and the laptop.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
No way, thats too far ahead. Look back at the apex you just missed, and think about it!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ahhh, Another history buff.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSpeedR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No time to take off...competition starts the 17th.

At least you get to drive. I run around with a wrench and the laptop. </TD></TR></TABLE>

we still got 2 full days of driving this weekend for suspension setup so ill be driving lots!

Getting the seat was certainly difficult. We have a shifter kart racer on the team, 2 guys will 3 years of seat time in the car, and one freshman who has the best natural driving talent i have ever witnessed.
Ill also be running with a wrench when im not driving thats part of the fun!

 

i'm still curious on what adjustments you have tried to make to be faster.

did you alter your line?
are both of your lines the same?
are you just trying to "drive faster?"
are you guys driving on the exact same setup?

i think shultz's advice is fantastic and right on. like him, i go much faster when i'm chasing somebody. it could also be your driving style, different drivers go fast with different setups. it seems that i like to have my cars a little more loose than others do. i would think about stop trying to do exactly what your other driver is doing, and start developing your own style of driving, and do what you're comfortable with.

i've spoken with multiple experienced drivers that have told me that i'll continue to get much faster very quickly for about the next year. then after that i'll hit a wall and not be able to get faster for a while, and i'll get very frustrated and mad (imagein that?), because i don't know why i can't improve. then one day i'll magically take off a big chunk of time. so.......what my rambling is getting at is that you could be at that point where you aren't getting any faster and you don't know why. relax, realize how lucky you are to be doing what you're doing, have fun, and it'll come to you. at worst, you don't get faster but you're still having fun, which is the point anyway.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Audipwr1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I think that his throttle application is a little smoother than mine and thats where his speed is coming from. We have looked at lateral accel, and entrance speed and exit speed, but never overlayed it with throttle percentage I kind of feel dumb now for not thinking of that good tip!
</TD></TR></TABLE>*swish!*

 

same car same setup
close to same line (this is autocross)

After talking it out im pretty sure its throttle application so im going to concentrate on that this weekend

 

close to the same line could mean a difference of up to 2 seconds by the time the run is done.

how do you compare your corner entry speeds? i assume all you can see is decel, lateral accel, and vehicle speed, right? can you measure steering angle?

if your corner speed is the same, but you are braking and turning in later, then your line is going to force you to start accelerating later. if you combine a corner entry push with braking later and turning in later, you entry speed may be the same, the lateral g's might be the same, but the car isn't going to want to turn and you'll be forced to wait even longer still to get on the power. add that you'll probably be having to hold more steering lock later in the corner to combat the push your acceleration will be even further delayed since getting on it with the wheel turned will either make it push more or spin.

my advice, go slower into the corners and get closer to the cones. make sure to unwind the wheel early as you come off the corner. don't get into the mode of braking later, driving harder, trying to catch someone. worry about beating your own time and driving "better".

more suggested reading. speed secrets 2 by ross bentley.

nate

 

Brake at exactly at the right point, apex at the right point, and accelerate at the right point. Simple right?

 

I would overlay the TP, longitudinal accel and the steering angle (most likely a linear pot.) versus distance for both drivers. You'll see when he's getting on the throttle and how the car is reacting to it. Do you have a brake potentiometer? If you do I'm jealous, but you can do the same thing as with the TP sensor to check out braking.

Get your data aq guys to show you everything. You have front/rear wheel speed sensors, right? Look at the difference between the two to see if you're locking up wheels (dips in the plot), or getting wheel spin during exit (rear wheel speed higher), both of which hurt your times.

 

FSAE is a very light class. Driver weight can make a huge difference. Are you heavier than the other guy?

 

we are both big boys 200lbs.
Should be interesting competing against little guys at the comp, they will have like .2-.3 better accel in straights if they make as much power as we do