Okay, so I'm reading the May 2004 issue of Grassroot Motorsports. I read the "starting line" article. <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GRM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Another car that captured the magic has, sadly, already come and gone. This car is the Integra Type R and, to a lesser extent, the last generation Civic SI. The latest Civic SI and Acura RSX have lost the edge. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm glad the author gave the ITR a shot out but would you agree with what he said? That our car has already had it's day? Has it come and gone because of newer technology and engineering. Or because, well, there are't that many Type R's left?

 

They dont make it anymore. Thats what he means.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They dont make it anymore. Thats what he means.</TD></TR></TABLE>

correct

 

Would that have hurt your feelings if that's what he meant? There are better handling front wheel drive cars out there now whether one wants to admit it or not.

 

i was pretty sure that rsx type R was on it's way. well at least it was in their cycle plan.
hopeuflly it does sell here in the states.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Justin Klemgold &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Would that have hurt your feelings if that's what he meant? There are better handling front wheel drive cars out there now whether one wants to admit it or not.</TD></TR></TABLE>

my sentiments exactly....but I drive a drag turbo car, what do I know about handling?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Justin Klemgold &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There are better handling front wheel drive cars out there now whether one wants to admit it or not.</TD></TR></TABLE>

no flames please, but i'm curious as to which ones?

 

I don't know any fwd cars that handle better than the R.

 

I'll agree that there are faster cars of all drivetrains available now in the Type R's class, but as far as better handling, I'm not so sure. While I can't say personally (having never driven them, and thus relying on the word of magazines...fairly worthless, yes, but then for the most part they're better drivers than me anyway), the competition: Mazdaspeed Protege, Neon SRT-4, Sentra SE-R Spec V, Focus SVT have all come up fairly short. The Protege has what sounds like the best handling of the bunch, though with an underpowered engine to match; the SRT-4 had the exact opposite; the Focus sounded like a nice package overall, which surprised me (not a Ford fan); and the Spec V just sounded mediocre in most respects. However, if you move out of that price range to just a little bit higher, but still in what could pass off as the "boy racer" crowd, the EVO and STi clearly perform better, and the RSX-R, if ever released in the US may also be able to make that claim.
To be clear, I'm talking only about stock models, so hatchcraps with swaps, coilovers, ATS LSDs and FDs etc. don't count, as if modification is brought into the picture, any car can be faster/handle better than just about any other stock car.

Edit: and having gone on my mini-rant, like five people beat me to my point...

 

Type R is a legend just like the AE86 (even in Japan) Nothing can really replace it. It broke so many performance records, and suprised the **** out the other manufacturers who thought that it was all in the power. RSX (or the DC5 Integra Type R) will never live up to the DC2. Its too big and bulky, and the suspension is way too soft.

I predict you will see a huge change (not just a minor change that Honda traditionally does after the first couple of years of production). I think there will be a significant change in the suspension design and maybe even a small size reduction.

Disclaimer: no real facts here...just speculation

My 2 yen

 

The "lost its edge" part makes it sound like he's not talking about it just not being produced anymore. It sounds like he is talking about performance. I agree with MiraiZ

 

the itr is great, and i love my car. yes there is better handling fwd cars out, but can those match up to the boundries the itr set, no. the itr was the first fwd car that made people see it as what it is.

 

I'm kinda glad in a weird way that our cars are getting "old". Maybe the new bunch of younger guys growing up will forget about them or heck not even know what they are to begin with. It would sure take a lot of the heat off from owning a "hype-r".

I like being an underdog anyway. Beating people with some "old" integra will be challenging and fun.

 

The DC2 Type R is seen the same way in Asutralia too, irreplaceable. It's led to Honda replacing the current DC5 psuedo-R and going for the Type S name because of the perception and reviews that it's not as raw as the outgoing model.

I don't know about the plans to redesign the suspension. I'd like to think there are plans to bring back double wishbones but somehow the whole fat wombat look goes well with struts. I think the Fit (Jazz) is pretty good after driving it a few times. With the right suspension and an engine swap that would be a very fun car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

no flames please, but i'm curious as to which ones?</TD></TR></TABLE>

there aren't any..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Justin Klemgold &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Would that have hurt your feelings if that's what he meant? There are better handling front wheel drive cars out there now whether one wants to admit it or not.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I guess I'm not totally sure about other fwd cars because I haven't owned that many, but my ITR in stock suspension trim is definately a better handeling car than my awd WRX with Tein springs and Falken rubber. Until I bought my ITR I was amazed at the handeling capabilities of the WRX. Then I test drove the ITR on some tight canyon roads doing upwards of 55+ mph (only felt comfortable around 40-45 mph on the same road in the Rex). The Yokohamas that were on her at the time were probably at 40% tread too! I was sold. Anyway, if there is a better fwd handeling car out there somewhere I'd like to see it.

 

Glad to see people thinking about this. Good reading IMO.

What competition does the R have for price and FWD?

I've never autoxed in the R but does it run STS? What other cars is it faced against?

 

the closest competitor would be the Civic Type R or Toyota Celica...(my guess)...but its still not up to the pace of the ITR

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Justin Klemgold &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There are better handling front wheel drive cars out there now whether one wants to admit it or not.</TD></TR></TABLE>

HUH?

 

yeah...still no answer from him as to what car... I'd like to know too

 

I think the author meant that the car is no longer produced.

The Edmunds article says it best about the ITR.

http://www.edmunds.com/used/20...Acura*

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In automotive terms, the Integra is the crotchety old man sitting on his porch, yelling at the young whippersnappers to get out of his yard, and recalling stories about the glory days to anybody who will listen.

At least with the Type R modifications, the old man gets to hold a semi-automatic M-16.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

its hard to put the ITR in a fair category of competiton. Other NA FWD cars from factory have not yet met the level of performance the ITR has achieved. A major factor was its sense of purpose in its engineering. Remember, its not just specs on paper that counts, but how the specs on paper were best tuned for all round balance.
Its takes most other manufacturers turbo - intercooled engines on 4 or RWD platforms and fatter wheels to only 'just' out perform Honda's NA FWD 1.8 VTEC. If your not force fed, you then need atleast a strong 6 or 8 or revvy rotary to achieve similiar performance results from a NA vehicle.

As a reputable Motoring magazine labelled the DC2 ITR, "One of the best drivers cars we know - too raw for some". And coming from a source that has driven, tested and enjoyed the company of perhaps every sports to supercar in existence, it definently carries alot of weight, especialy the 'too raw for some' quote.

In a nut shell, there will be cars faster, there will be some that handle better but never again will a car manufactuer build a sports car with such a philosophical intent or engineerng feat of factory tuning as these *****-out-race-cars respresented.

I believe its going to take another 20 years before another manufactuer has the engineering vision and racing bloodlines which can again create a car - available to the common man - that rewards with such a raw, uncomprimising driving experience.

May I say 1973, Porsche's 2.7 Careera RS.

this is why the ITR will never be just a sports car, rather street legal race car.....& Honda have laid the sauce on thick.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MiraiZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">DC5 Integra Type R will never live up to the DC2. Its too big and bulky, and the suspension is way too soft. </TD></TR></TABLE>

MiraiZ, TOO SOFT? I beg to differ. The stock suspension feels wonderful and far from soft to me. The few Honda guys I hang out with down here on Okinawa that own DC2Rs seem to really like the DC5R and have nothing but praise for it.

For me, I love both the 2R and 5R, and yes the first ITR will always be a legend, it set the benchmark for an affordable R status vehicle from Honda. It garnered very deserving praise here in Japan and when the CTR came out it also earned that praise and most people actually said that it handled better than the ITR, they wished that Honda would of put the B18C into it instead of the B16B, because it felt even more track capable and the increase in power and torque would of done wonders to the car.

 

The engine is wonderful. The K20a has good torque right out of the box, and tons of potential. I totally envy the 6 speed gear box and wished that they had offered something similar for the B series (even as an aftermarket product)

BUT, YES..the chassis is bulky. Had they stuck to something similar to the dimesions of the DC2, I think it would have been a better car. I personally see more Civic Type R's (EP3) around my area and Tokyo than the DC5. I think its because the EP3 has a slightly better power to ratio. And not to mention its the first generation where a Civic has been faster than an Integra out of the box.

The new Teg needs to go on a diet and/or add some more stock horses or otherwise,it will always be thought of being "not as good as the DC2"

my opinion

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MiraiZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The engine is wonderful. The K20a has good torque right out of the box, and tons of potential. I totally envy the 6 speed gear box and wished that they had offered something similar for the B series (even as an aftermarket product)

BUT, YES..the chassis is bulky. Had they stuck to something similar to the dimesions of the DC2, I think it would have been a better car. I personally see more Civic Type R's (EP3) around my area and Tokyo than the DC5. I think its because the EP3 has a slightly better power to ratio. And not to mention its the first generation where a Civic has been faster than an Integra out of the box.

The new Teg needs to go on a diet and/or add some more stock horses or otherwise,it will always be thought of being "not as good as the DC2"

my opinion </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ummm stock weights are 1180kg ITR and 1210 CTR, and the Integra has 5 more ps, so how does it have a better power to weight ratio? It doesn't, the top NA cars power to weight ratio in Japan are NSX, S2000, new ITR, old ITR, new CTR, and old CTR in that order. Without AC, the Integra is 1170 and the CTR is 1190. You may see more EP3 because they are still 5 series plates and the Integra is a 3 series meaning higher road tax to sum of 70000yen more a year! That adds up. The extra width is what made the DC5 go to a 3 plate, kind of a dumb Japanese law, considering it is not a very wide vehicle.

Dimension wise, it is just slightly taller 55mm(2.2"), same wheelbase as the DC2R, overall length is 5mm longer(.2") and it's width is 30mm wider(1.2").

I value your opinion and not trying to argue, but just want the actual facts posted correctly.