I noticed in the last few races that the Pro AM, T4 and SFWD cars are running
9's without wheelie bars pretty consistently. I was just wondering what has changed from back in the day (1997) when gutted out lexan window high HP Hot Rod type class (Jo Jo, Kenny Tran, Viet Lam, etc.) cars could only run low 10's high nines with wheelie bars.

Is it Horsepower? Cause the MPH trap speeds are up there around 150+mph which is much faster then back in 1997. Is it tire compound/ suspension and setup?

How much power does it take to do 150mph trap speeds in SFWD 2,200-2300lb NHRA legal SFWD class car? What math is involved in calculating the right amount of power?

Any input would be very helpful. I have seen a lot of guys dynoing big numbers, but I don't see very high trap speeds what is up with that? If you can't realistically hook up lets say 750whp on a 26" slick, then why do so many people want to make that much power? It seems silly.

I have heard that you really can't realistically hook up more than 550whp on 25" or 26" slicks without wheelie bars. Is this true? Is this all you really need to go 9's? Some solid numbers would help....hint hint J. Hunt&BB.

Thanks in advance

 

honestly you won't get a lot of help out of the competition when it comes to people that want to run in the same class that would just be stupid for people to tell all about thier setup and have people copy them.

No it isn't all horsepower you want to look into the suspension and IMO a 26" tall tire is worthless. The people taht want 700+ whp straight up don't know what they are doing, i won't drop any names right now but i think people know who i am talking about.

 

a good boost controller?

 

Im a pro am racer and im making nothing close to what the fast guys in my class are, i can run low elevens cause my car hooks pretty good, but after half track those car are catching me hard... You do need to be making some big hp, just not outrageous HP if that makes sense....thats what i think.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 99blackcivicSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">honestly you won't get a lot of help out of the competition when it comes to people that want to run in the same class that would just be stupid for people to tell all about thier setup and have people copy them.

No it isn't all horsepower you want to look into the suspension and IMO a 26" tall tire is worthless. The people taht want 700+ whp straight up don't know what they are doing, i won't drop any names right now but i think people know who i am talking about.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yup. Its called hard work. Jason has worked hard to get to the point where he is today. A word of advice I can give you is dont do what "everyone" else is doing. Start from scratch and think things over. I will say that everything on my car Ive done thus far has been thought out very carefully and how it works with each component in the car. How it'll run, who knows? The fun part is making it work....

One more thing, power isnt everything. Its a big part of the equation but its hard on your engine.

art

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Arturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


One more thing, power isnt everything. Its a big part of the equation but its hard on your engine.

art </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

nobody is going to just come out and tell you how they did it..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MHRacing-310 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nobody is going to just come out and tell you how they did it.. </TD></TR></TABLE>


i heard they had the magic lamp from "i dream of jeannie"..........

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jinxproof99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


i heard they had the magic lamp from "i dream of jeannie".......... </TD></TR></TABLE>


SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Karl they don't want all their secrets getting out!!!!!!!

 

ahh, come on guys it seems like there are no secrets left in business anyway. As for Hardware, I think everyone is about even in setups. Just saw the new Titan Civic setup. Looks good, but why change everything all over a bad rod bolt? I don't understand the logic?

I know the secret is in the boost control and timing map control setup that sets everyone apart. The key is not to blow the tires off the car at the top end.
_________________
Quote"No it isn't all horsepower you want to look into the suspension and IMO a 26" tall tire is worthless. The people that want 700+ whp straight up don't know what they are doing, i won't drop any names right now but i think people know who i am talking about."

_____________
So why does everyone post their WHP numbers at the bottom of their posts? What does that supposed to mean in terms of speed down the quarter? Is that supposed to tell other racers watch out I am going to do a John Force burnout and impress the crowd and throw a rod bolt through the block? I don't see Jason and Brian doing it and I bet you $100.00 they are no way making 700WHP, it is more like in the high 400-550whp range. Is that supposed to prove a point posting whp #'s on the boards? Just curious.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cul8tr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ahh, come on guys it seems like there are no secrets left in business anyway. As for Hardware, I think everyone is about even in setups. Just saw the new Titan Civic setup. Looks good, but why change everything all over a bad rod bolt? I don't understand the logic?

I know the secret is in the boost control and timing map control setup that sets everyone apart. The key is not to blow the tires off the car at the top end.
_________________
Quote"No it isn't all horsepower you want to look into the suspension and IMO a 26" tall tire is worthless. The people that want 700+ whp straight up don't know what they are doing, i won't drop any names right now but i think people know who i am talking about."

_____________
So why does everyone post their WHP numbers at the bottom of their posts? What does that supposed to mean in terms of speed down the quarter? Is that supposed to tell other racers watch out I am going to do a John Force burnout and impress the crowd and throw a rod bolt through the block? I don't see Jason and Brian doing it and I bet you $100.00 they are no way making 700WHP, it is more like in the high 400-550whp range. Is that supposed to prove a point posting whp #'s on the boards? Just curious.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What better time to step up your game and do the stuff you really wanted to the first time than when you have the motor out and changing parts. Posting your whp is just for bragging. A monkey could get 400-500 whp with a b series motor with store bought off the shelf parts and some machine work. Now above the 500 mark takes some work. With Jason and Brian, how much hp they can make and what they can use is two different numbers.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jinxproof99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i heard they had the magic lamp from "i dream of jeannie".......... </TD></TR></TABLE>

lol, sad part is there are rumors about as rediculous that go around. Where can I get one of those????

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rhman19 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

lol, sad part is there are rumors about as rediculous that go around. Where can I get one of those????</TD></TR></TABLE>

You can have mine but I used it up in my motocross days.

 

cul8tr


1. there are MANY secrets in this business. don't kid yourself. there are only 2 people in this whole planet that know exactly what jason has done to his car from bumper to bumper. thats him and charlie. NO ONE else knows everything thats been done or tried.

2. power is only probably 20% the equation. you need years and years of experience, money, knowledge, and a few other things that won't be mentioned. 30psiCiv said earlier, "A monkey could get 400-500 whp with a b series motor with store bought off the shelf parts and some machine work. " that is very close to the truth. i'll add that a monkey in a sport fwd car can probably run 10.30's/10.40's these days without even too much knowledge/information. but running 9's, thats totally different. you cannot call up a shop, send them your car, drop 15 grand, and jump in and run 10.00 in sport fwd. that isn't gonna happen. time and effort at the track and in the garage and the knowledge you learn from that and others is what helps get the car down the track correctly.

3. there is no one single way of building a drag car. different guys have different views and i have seen two very similar cars get down the track close to each other but yet are set up 2 totally different ways. there is no miracle answer. you have to get in your car and go to the track every week and drive it. try different things slowly and talk to as many people as you can and get as much info as people are willing to give you. but its safe to say that NO ONE here on honda-tech is going to hand the knowledge over. notice this: they guys that are going fast don't do alot of talking, don't mention TOO much about their set ups, and don't post rediculous dyno numbers that are basically meaningless.


Modified by jinxproof99 at 2:52 PM 5/9/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jinxproof99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">cul8tr


2. power is only probably 20% the equation. you need years and years of experience, money, knowledge, and a few other things that won't be mentioned. 30psiCiv said earlier, "A monkey could get 400-500 whp with a b series motor with store bought off the shelf parts and some machine work. " that is very close to the truth. i'll add that a monkey in a sport fwd car can probably run 10.30's/10.40's these days without even too much knowledge/information. but running 9's, thats totally different. you cannot call up a shop, send them your car, drop 15 grand, and jump in and run 10.00 in sport fwd. that ain't gonna happening. time and effort at the track and in the garage and the knowledge you learn from that and others is what helps get the car down the track correctly.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its true, here in town a kid bought the power extreme car, if yall didnt know already, but i believe the guys fastest pass in that car is a high elevens then hell run 14's and 15's at like 115, 120 (i believe that car once made a 9 sec pass when paul owned it) , plus has had some close calls with the wall

 

I second what Karl says. There are plenty of secrets in this game; why do you think there are only a handful of people running 9's in that class.

The number one thing that sets these guys apart is hard work and long hours. Like what Art said, they don't just throw parts together, they think about the best way to get all the components to work together. Then you need seat time to feel out the car...

 

Thanks for the honesty. It is hard to find that these days.
____________________
With my new setup and the first time down the strip in a Turbo FWD ever with no burnout (forgot to pull the e-brake - still got a 1.8 60ft) and worn slicks with a groove in it@14psi I got an 11.80@121mph. I knew then that I had a long way to go before I saw low10's. Even though I somehow qualified 8th at VMP, I decided not to run again at that event because we still had a lot of sorting out to do. Can you believe a dead battery ended my day?

I am definitely not kidding myself. This is a serious business and you can get hurt if you don't know what your are doing. Later this month Frank Smith and I are renting MOROSO out to test out some new stuff and for me to get my suspension dialed in and my 60ft's down.

You are right, its takes a lot of hard work money and dedication.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jinxproof99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


2. power is only probably 20% the equation. you need years and years of experience, money, knowledge, and a few other things that won't be mentioned. 30psiCiv said earlier, "A monkey could get 400-500 whp with a b series motor with store bought off the shelf parts and some machine work. " that is very close to the truth. i'll add that a monkey in a sport fwd car can probably run 10.30's/10.40's these days without even too much knowledge/information. but running 9's, thats totally different. you cannot call up a shop, send them your car, drop 15 grand, and jump in and run 10.00 in sport fwd. that isn't gonna happen. time and effort at the track and in the garage and the knowledge you learn from that and others is what helps get the car down the track correctly.


Modified by jinxproof99 at 2:52 PM 5/9/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with about 99% of what Karl said here! But I would have to say I don;t think any Monkey can get into a car and run 10.30's/10.40's still, it is an accomplishment to me still. There are still only a few people running 10.20's to 10.40's then there is Jason, Brian Ballard, Brian Fisher and Mat Keller sunning 9's in a Sport FWD/Pro Am car, they are the exceptions here since they all have much much expierence at the track. Jason has been racing for years and the Inline Pro guys Mat and Brian F too. Brian B has been at it for a few years too. Alot of people are making good power they need to learn how to drive the set up and get it right now, including myself! I think also power is about 50% of the equation the rest is driver skill and suspension set up and just practive practice practice. If power was only 20% of the equation you could run 9's with 350whp IT AIN'T HAPPENING unless it's a slow bike

 

I definitely think that practice is the biggest part of the equation. The more seat time you have the better consistency you get. The fastest guy or the guy with the most power or whatever wont win if he doesn't have consistency. Consistency wins races period. The first 60ft dictates the race.. this is where most of the knowledge needs to be accumulated. Learn how to feel the car's limitations under different track conditions.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostedNDarted &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Its true, here in town a kid bought the power extreme car, if yall didnt know already, but i believe the guys fastest pass in that car is a high elevens then hell run 14's and 15's at like 115, 120 (i believe that car once made a 9 sec pass when paul owned it) , plus has had some close calls with the wall </TD></TR></TABLE>

thats just sad

 

So what do u guys mean I can't just pay a shop to give me the 9sec street car package?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jinxproof99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">cul8tr


1. there are MANY secrets in this business. don't kid yourself. there are only 2 people in this whole planet that know exactly what jason has done to his car from bumper to bumper. thats him and charlie. NO ONE else knows everything thats been done or tried.

2. power is only probably 20% the equation. you need years and years of experience, money, knowledge, and a few other things that won't be mentioned. 30psiCiv said earlier, "A monkey could get 400-500 whp with a b series motor with store bought off the shelf parts and some machine work. " that is very close to the truth. i'll add that a monkey in a sport fwd car can probably run 10.30's/10.40's these days without even too much knowledge/information. but running 9's, thats totally different. you cannot call up a shop, send them your car, drop 15 grand, and jump in and run 10.00 in sport fwd. that isn't gonna happen. time and effort at the track and in the garage and the knowledge you learn from that and others is what helps get the car down the track correctly.

3. there is no one single way of building a drag car. different guys have different views and i have seen two very similar cars get down the track close to each other but yet are set up 2 totally different ways. there is no miracle answer. you have to get in your car and go to the track every week and drive it. try different things slowly and talk to as many people as you can and get as much info as people are willing to give you. but its safe to say that NO ONE here on honda-tech is going to hand the knowledge over. notice this: they guys that are going fast don't do alot of talking, don't mention TOO much about their set ups, and don't post rediculous dyno numbers that are basically meaningless.


Modified by jinxproof99 at 2:52 PM 5/9/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL very well said karl.. jeanie lamp!!! i must find one..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DIRep972 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So what do u guys mean I can't just pay a shop to give me the 9sec street car package?</TD></TR></TABLE>

if you have enough dough, it is very possible.. but it wont come easy.. alot of seat time and track tuning..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MHRacing-310 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you have enough dough, it is very possible.. but it wont come easy.. alot of seat time and track tuning.. </TD></TR></TABLE>
hey max, he was being sarcastic. My crew cheif likes to be funny sometimes..lol

 

i bet a big part of the equation is that jason told me personally that he has had about 700 passes with the crx.....practice makes perfect. i bet he went out there and practiced at 300whp, then 400hp and so on. so just because somebody has 600whp doesnt mean crap...seat time is maybe the best secret out there.