Hi guys its Cassandra again. I thought you might want to take a look at an internal memo between Michael Brennan and Michael Meyers that crossed my desk today. Remember I work for MB the NDRA National Race Director. I was supposed to post parts of it so here it goes:

MB. Michael I want to implement a weighin after selected passes because we can actually see what these cars are weighing in their respective classes. This data will give our tech guys accurate numbers. Then and only then do I think we should even begin to consider changing our current weight breaks for the sportsman classes.

MM. How will this affect the racers and what do you think the racers will say?

MB. I think it will be a very good experiment. We will see first hand how it affects the racers time management and if it really is the pain some of them are claiming it will be we can drop it all together with out ever having messed with the rules at the wrong time. I want this mostly because if we ever do make any weight changes we will be making our adjustments from a more educated base then we currently have. You know right now I just want to let them race because I feel they need a little stability due to all the hard work they did in the off season; I know as a racer I would have hated us if we changed the class rules right after I got the damn thing done.

MM. OK anything else your planning.

MB. We had spoken about limiting our t4 and c4 classes to 16 car fields instead of all runs. Glen is in total agreence and I think he brings a valid point forward from the racers. They can't be expected to go those extra couple of rounds as it is right now. The wear and tear on their race car is excessive when they go two or three more rounds then anyone else. As you know when the rounds get closer together near the end of the event these guys have very little time to do the required maintenence their cars need.

MM. Sounds good. But let me see if i have this straight. We aren't changing the rules at this point in time.

MB. Right!

MM. We are going to 16 car fields in two classes instead of all runs.

MB. Yes. There was other stuff but those are the things that will affect the guys and girls that are racing with us right now. Michael wanted me to let you guys know that if you don't qualify for the 16 car fields you are welcome to run in our open sessions and do a little grudge racing or just practice on your racing or try out a new combo without the fear of not making it through another round of competition.

He also is hoping you guys don't start hating because we want to gather some data that is beneficial to everyone involved in this sport.
Do something your not supposed to do this weekend but make sure it's legal

Cassandra

 

sounds like someones got their head on straight. great to hear this. At least they are gonna let the cars run before making a stupid decision. allthough nhra kind of did this, they jumped the gun alittle too quick-pdang

 

oh i had thought weighing in was and should be a normal thing. it promotes fairness in the weight rules.
if ndra isnt doing it.. they should be already. I thought it was already implemented at all race series.

 

and i thought i was going to have a quite weekend. yes we do weigh the classes that have assigned minimum weights but we do not weigh most of the sportsman. actually i'll check with the guys but i don't think we weigh any of the sportsman because their are no min weights for those classes.
cassandra
ps if you aren't familiar with our policies you probably aren't racing at our events which makes me wonder why you would put a negative spin on something purposed to address the possibility of an uneven playing field?

 

oh didnt mean to make my comment sound all bad. yes most of us West Coast guys don't race the NDRA.

oh didnt catch the class you were talking about. so Sportmans are like the Street Classes? similar to Pro-AM and Sport classes?

 

Hey Will,
I think you're aiming in the right direction, that the Sportsman classes are the street style classes. At least that's what would make the most sense to me

Clayton

 

Correct, sportsman are the street classes. It is the Pro-am of IDRC and SFWD of NHRA.

And in NDRA only the pro-classes have a weight in because there is a weight limit. Where as NDRA has no weight limit in the "sportsman" and so they do not weight the cars.

My favorite classes is still T4, SFWD and Pro-Am.

art

 

I totally agree with some kind of minimum weights in T4! With a reasonable minimum weight we wouldn't need to cut our cars up as much to stay competative. The down side to a high min weight would more parts breakage.


If I could pick a min weight it would be in the 2300-2400 pound range with one
power adder, 100-200 more for 2nd power adder.

for you guys, you really are listening!!!

 

16 car field weighin is ok with me


Modified by alllmotor at 6:32 PM 5/9/2004

 

first of all the only thing thats going to get ko is your crx. why r u posting on a nopi page nopi isnt coming to the best side which is west so dont put up for them give them for not coming to the west

 

this weight requirement or whatever.. is just going to cause more problems among the comp4racers.. then there already is.. as long as your car is full body.. all glass. and not cut.. its on you.. whatever car you build is up to you.. what is putting a min weight going to do? what if a car is 100% LEGAL lets say.. and its lighter then another car.. is it the person with the lighter cars fault?? NO. its not.. this is street/sportsman class with regualr cars with not so regular motors.. not a pro class. where almost anything goes.. just my 2 cents

NOPI does need to come out WEST SIDE!!! WE have more then a few cars able to lay down some serious numbers in the all motor street class for sure!!


Modified by MHRacing-310 at 11:24 PM 5/8/2004

 

michael brennan has been contacting west coast track managers because the NDRA does want to have a west coast pressence. but michael is quick to point out that the best west coast events, regardless of who puts them on, still don't rival an east coast event. he attended the NHRA opener this year and knows the actual gate count by the track officials. it wasn't all that much bigger then last years NDRA final, not even double, although he knows people will argue that point the fact remains the turn out was small. he believes the reason for this is there are too many happening events on the west coast everyday in the la basin, at least that is his opinion. most people would rather go clubbing, attend something underground or find some friends hanging at six flags, city walk, disney adventure, a beach party, ski resort; i could just keep going on that's what is so awesome about living here and the reason so many people come from all over the world to live with us. yes the west is the best except when it comes to spo com drag racing. he doesn't have exact numbers but he also has said the enforcement of smog regulations on the west definitely must play a part in a tuners game plan. i would like to mention that i have read the other posts [specifically the lack of west coast events] that are addressing this issue and we are monitoring the input you guys are sending, so we see the need just how big is it? in closing the idea of some west coast events is definitely not dead but they may end up in nor cal or some place where the scene is a little more happening. please don't hate, participate! player.
i hope i have reaffirmed your faith in us, at least a little bit
cassandra

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cassandra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> but michael is quick to point out that the best west coast events, regardless of who puts them on, still don't rival an east coast event. </TD></TR></TABLE>
....and thats a fact!!!
-Roger

 

ya true that about the West Coast having too much events to choose from at any given time.

I dont think that its the lack of people interested in Sport Compact Racing, its just that out of 20-30K enthusiasts that can possibly be at the event that weekend, the crowd gets diverted to concerts, clubbing, and other activites. thats why the events end up with only 5000-10K spectators.
Even as a hardcore Enthusiast, I can see myself getting diverted as well to other functions in Southern california and miss a race here and there.

but when it comes to NHRA Vegas.. you know many of the So Cal people are down to combine some racing and Vegas fun all in one weekend.

 

just bring more events down here. nobody is mad at you anymore.. itll be fun i promise

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RacerStev &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I totally agree with some kind of minimum weights in T4! With a reasonable minimum weight we wouldn't need to cut our cars up as much to stay competative. The down side to a high min weight would more parts breakage.


If I could pick a min weight it would be in the 2300-2400 pound range with one
power adder, 100-200 more for 2nd power adder.

for you guys, you really are listening!!!
</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you are cutting your car, you should not be in a street class.

Minimum weights can not be imposed on any street classes because they are street cars, which have full interior, glass, etc. The amount of cars that are allowed in street classes are too broad to regulate unlike in a PRO class. A street class is just that a street class not a pro class: It should not be regulated. Keeping an all motor car against an all motor car and a turbo car against a turbo car is the the regulating needed in street classes.

Unfortunately, the tech staff has not been informed of proposed changes and the Tech Director and his staff should be consulted with before any internal information has been posted on the internet that has not been made offical.

 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Minimum weights can not be imposed on any street classes because they are street cars, which have full interior, glass, etc. The amount of cars that are allowed in street classes are too broad to regulate unlike in a PRO class. A street class is just that a street class not a pro class: It should not be regulated. Keeping an all motor car against an all motor car and a turbo car against a turbo car is the the regulating needed in street classes. &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

Ok, we can disagree on this

If you guys do wind up checking the cars to see what they weigh in at I think you
will see that a very limited number of car modals will be able to get under 2400 pounds with a cage. I think you will also see that the faster cars in the class are the ones that do get under that weight.

Peace all !! Debate is a good thing If we keep our heads this could be very
constructive!

 

Steve you seem to have a hatred towards crxs and hatches. You chose to build a neon, should I be penalized because my car is lighter than yours from the factory? just an fyi, my car 2290 when it ran the 9.8 at Nopi, the inline car was between 2300 & 2400 and ran 9.7, I dont' see how the weight is that big of an issue...your car is going to competive as all hell...

 

I think Turbo4 is getting too competitive not to enforce a minimum weight.. Very very few of these cars in this class are daily driven anymore, and many are rarely street driven either when you get to the level of competition that it takes to win in this class.. As the competition gets heavier in the next year or two people are going to continue to push the limits of these motors, as well as push the limits of the tranny and the drivetrain, so what makes you think they won't push the limits of the chassis also? A minimum weight should be enforced just to prevent people from doing anything dangerous w/ the chassis when trying to stay competitive. To say, "if you are cutting your car you should not be in the street class." To me that statement assumes too much about what kinda street cars these street class cars really are.

 

&gt;&gt;&gt;Steve you seem to have a hatred towards crxs and hatches&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

Brian, I'd just like to see them weigh a little more to take away what I see as a
small advantage. I think the cars are cool as h--l to tell you the truth. Cheap to
buy, lots of aftermarket parts, nice and light, can make way more then enough power, IMO a great FWD race car. If they just had a longer wheel base I think they would be THE perfict T4 car.

Nothing ageist you or anybody else that runs one, just wish I could get closer in
weight. I'm in the 2580 pound range right now, I could keep on getting more
fiberglass, and take out the heater and all the stuff under the dash, then go on a
diet to lose a few pounds. I'd still be a couple hundred pounds more then you.

 

Why is it morons like You have to get on any thread and bash people because You are from "the west coast" ? Who gives a f*ck where You live? Not any of us east coast guys. All we care about is racing and women, You obviously care about neither.


NDRA/NOPI
LUCKYDRAGSTA :


Modified by proracr1 at 9:43 AM 5/10/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RacerStev &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">&gt;&gt;&gt;Steve you seem to have a hatred towards crxs and hatches&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

Brian, I'd just like to see them weigh a little more to take away what I see as a
small advantage. I think the cars are cool as h--l to tell you the truth. Cheap to
buy, lots of aftermarket parts, nice and light, can make way more then enough power, IMO a great FWD race car. If they just had a longer wheel base I think they would be THE perfict T4 car.

Nothing ageist you or anybody else that runs one, just wish I could get closer in
weight. I'm in the 2580 pound range right now, I could keep on getting more
fiberglass, and take out the heater and all the stuff under the dash, then go on a
diet to lose a few pounds. I'd still be a couple hundred pounds more then you. </TD></TR></TABLE>


so steve, when you run 9.40's or 9.50's in your car with the auto tranny, that tranny should be banned???? no. you should get a bigger weight penalty?? no. thats the benefits of you choosing your platform. you get more displacement, a long wheelbase, and a better, more consistant tranny. the crx's get a "slightly" lighter weight, a shitty wheelbase, and maybe 2.1 liters out of there motor if they're lucky. lets look at the big picture. the simple fact is that the top guys who are running these numbers have been at it longer than the rest of the field. they have alot of knowledge, experience, and time in their cars. its not as though there won't be others. i mean, mat kellar ran 9.70's in an integra. at 2400 lbs. if that car can run 9.70's, a neon can no problem.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jinxproof99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


so steve, when you run 9.40's or 9.50's in your car with the auto tranny, that tranny should be banned???? no. you should get a bigger weight penalty?? no. thats the benefits of you choosing your platform. you get more displacement, a long wheelbase, and a better, more consistant tranny. the crx's get a "slightly" lighter weight, a shitty wheelbase, and maybe 2.1 liters out of there motor if they're lucky. lets look at the big picture. the simple fact is that the top guys who are running these numbers have been at it longer than the rest of the field. they have alot of knowledge, experience, and time in their cars. its not as though there won't be others. i mean, mat kellar ran 9.70's in an integra. at 2400 lbs. if that car can run 9.70's, a neon can no problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree...

I know alot of people are saying that these crx's are light... No ****.. BUT.. they have a limited wheelbase as stated above, the pro's and cons are just about even... Im sure your neon will go 9's, so no problem there... my hatch ran fast at 2500lbs, with alot more potential... if you weight 80 lbs more, it should be good to go, being that you have a far larger motor...

Give Jason an auto tranny, and see what happens

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RacerStev &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Peace all !! Debate is a good thing If we keep our heads this could be very
constructive! </TD></TR></TABLE>


You are right Steve Debate is a good thing......

So on that note:
1) Penalizing someone for doing their homework and picking a platform that is already light weight? I think that is smart planning.
Don't choose a platform then complain because you aren't competitive.
The CRX's have been racing for years, So you knew what your competition was coming into all of this.

2) Your running an auto trans. Smart planning or too much weight? hmmmm I say smart.. But since only 2 manufactures have components that can withstand the abuse of drag racing, I see that as an unfair advantage (lets level the playing field)for the guys that have to shift their manual trannys.
So unless everybody has the same parts we have to make a rule or something to make it equal????
NO
If you want that go race IROC, all the same cars, equally prepared.
This is drag racing!
Their are many different ways to get down the track.
Choose one, if you don't like it you can change it.
Or would you prefer to make others change their way?????

Charlie

 

I also like to add that Jason and Brian are the ONLY ones in CRX's running 9's. Am I right or am I wrong? I think the CRX is a more of a difficult platform to start off with. Yeah its light but it has alot of the weight in the wrong places.