Alright, got my car back from the shop today, not impressed at all.
My car pulled 130.1 @7000 rpm's - Max Power
'' 101.8 @ 7000 rpm's - Max Torque

Something is seriously not going on here..

It's a b16 OBD1 head, a 95 LS bottom, I have AEM CAI, Tanabe Race Medallion Exhaust, B&M FPR, AEM Cam Gears...

but Im running stock cat, stock header.. and only 32psi on the FPR

What could be wrong?

He suggested that it could be automatic cams? But would it take away that much? He told me it should be around 160-70 Max Power -WHP.

I have the dyno chart and the pics if needed..

seems slower then my ls

EDIT: the ecu is P28 - P06 equipped for VTEC and Hondata



Modified by Kid RS at 2:06 PM 5/6/2004

 

Im gona do compression test tomorrow..

I forgot to mention Im running LS oil/water pumps but I did change the timing belt

 

do you have a tuning device? vafc, hondata??

 

Nope, but he fooled around with my fuel pressure and my timing on the gears, I trust him because he has a 600WHP Civic.. but my car is below average

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kid RS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nope, but he fooled around with my fuel pressure and my timing on the gears, I trust him because he has a 600WHP Civic.. but my car is below average</TD></TR></TABLE>

First thing I notice that does not look right is the toruqe peak and HP peak at the same RPM, maybe it was a typo???..... I have never seen that with a b series motor.

I would do a compression test and if all is good, tune it. Those number look like a weak b16..

 

oops 101.8 @ 5750.

and its hard to go back and fourth cuz the nearest dyno (where I got it done) is 2 hours away..

 

Stock bottom end, with ls pistons would explain that just fine.

-sander

Yes, automatic b16 cams are worthless. I should take some pictures of my old ones compared to even ITR cams.

 

If youre running an LS water pump you should be running an LS timing belt. And you should not be using an LS oil pump. Even me, who has one of the ghettoist LS/VTECs on Honda Tech knows better than that.


I don't know where it was mentioned that you had a b16a automatic valve train? Someone said they suck but I never saw you mention you had that, either way I sitll think you should be making more power. What is your wideband o2 looking like? With 32 fpr even with good timing I'm not sure what the deal is.

Scan your dyno sheet, and put it online, I think you'll get a lot more answers then.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kid RS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

He suggested that it could be automatic cams? But would it take away that much? He told me it should be around 160-70 Max Power -WHP.

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jdm b16 was the only automatic dohc vtec motor (i believe) . (hence auto b16 valve train)

This really isnt suprising. stock header, stock cat, shitty cams, and low compression.

I would be VERY impressed to see 170 out of that combination.

-sander

 

here is a dyno graph (I am sure some of you have seen this before) that shows what a "stock" LSVTEC puts out. Now, it seems to me like your setup pretty much sucks, especially if you are running automatic b16 cams. Granted your motor puts out lower than the one in the graph, but you are complaining about a motor that isn't even built...it's just a stock b16 head on a stock LS block. You don't really start seeing power until you raise your compression a bit and get some better cams and then go from there. I don't mean to sound like an *******, just stating the obvious.

 

I don't have a scanner so make the best of of these, sorry..

I guess I was stupid, I just got all the wrong information on the swap...

but it doesnt even seem like its hitting vtec, I got like 60% throttle slowly up to 6500 and it doesnt change at all..

I touched them up with PS so you could see them better..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kid RS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't have a scanner so make the best of of these, sorry..

I guess I was stupid, I just got all the wrong information on the swap...

but it doesnt even seem like its hitting vtec, I got like 60% throttle slowly up to 6500 and it doesnt change at all..

I touched them up with PS so you could see them better..

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Is all the wiring done correctly for your swap? Are you sure the ECU chipping for VTEC was done correctly? Do you have enough oil in your motor? Not enough oil = no VTEC. There are several factors that come into play with VTEC engagement (it's a very touchy system )

 

I havent checked the oil but I will..

I dont know much about the swap but all the lines seem fine..

Its not leaking or nething , and the ecu is a chipped p28 with p06 equipped for vtec and hondata..

 

Well, the person that chipped it could have fucked up in the process. Do you have a way to test continuity? You can get a tester at Home Depot for like $5. Use that and check continuity betwee the VTEC Solenoid plug on the motor and the VTEC Solenoid pin on the wire haress (A4 i believe) and also check the VTEC Oil Pressure plug on the motor and the VTEC oil pressure pin on the harness (i think it's D3). With a continuity tester, it should light up if the circuit is completed.

 

You have no vtec. Check timing, maybe youre running a tooth off.

 

yeah, because on the chart it looks like it doesnt have any increse, and I dont hear any changeover..

 

You wont hear **** with automatic cams. It will just feel like a really weak *** power band. if your vtec doesnt work you will know. Your car will completely fall on its face after 6000.

-sander

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sander &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Stock bottom end, with ls pistons would explain that just fine.

-sander

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i agree you need to get some more compression mill the head 2 layer 1 layer head gasket

 

I thought Mustang Dynos read way lower than a dynojet. I 'thought' it was at least 10% lower, but dont hold me to that. The IB 140whp dyno was a dynojet, so given your dyno is on a mustang your car is actually making a little more power than the IB dyno'd bone stock LS/VTEC. Also your trq curve is really smooth, Vtec almost has to be working to hold the trq across such a huge RPM band. Look how terrible the torque curve is on the IB dyno.. Its all over the place. Yours is nice and smooth. Mustang dynos just dont output bragging numbers.

Also, I thought I remember seeing ITR's only dyno 150's wheel on a mustang dyno, I really think you have a good running LS/VTEC taking these things into account and the fact it is 100% stock. Find out how much stock ITR's dyno at this dyno your using and use that difference to judge. Or better yet, go to the track get your car weight with you in it, and get your trap speed and calculate the whp. Again I think your car is probably running very well given its current build.

 

That is one hell of a broad and flat torque curve dude. :D

Very nice.

 

That's a Mustang dyno fool!!!

They read 10-15% lower than a dynojet would.

Take this into account and youre making more like 145-150whp or so.

Not bad

 

MUSTANG DYNO'S READ 12-14% LOWER THAN A DYNOJET

i dynoed my b16a and it hit 130.0 WHP on a mustang dyno, put it on a dynojet, hit 152.2WHP

your compression is horrible right now...if you running a stock headgasket, your head isnt milled, your compression is about 9.5 or so, i say pull your head back off, go have it milled .020, remove the middle layer from your head gasket and you should be around a 10.2-3ish range

althought with my b20vtec on 9.5 right now, i put down 169.8whp and 129.2 tq
i'm installing b20z pistons soon to shoot it up to 10.5 as well as ITR valve train going for 200whp or so

from my experience with this "type" motors, you need your fuel up more, i have mine running at 47idle(this is a b20/vtec)

also to tell if you have an AUTO valvetrain, you should have dual valve springs on your intake side, and single on your exhaust, if you have single/single - then its auto, if you have double/double - its aftermarket, or some kind of R(ctr or itr) valvetrain

hope this helps...

edit: i had a jun chipped p28, and i put back on a stock p72 and my car was ALOT quicker...maybe you have a **** chip on your ecu

 

I dont hear vtec though? I dont get it..

everybody with any DOHC vtec engines, it just explodes at vtec, mine you cant even hear it..

well I think you guys are right..

a local guy has an 00 Si-R, he has Cat cams, AEM cam gears, AEM CAI, AEM pulleys, Skunk2 manifold, BBK throttle body, header, high flow cat, B&M FPR, he ran 145whp and 108 torque..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slowazzhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">from my experience with this "type" motors, you need your fuel up more, i have mine running at 47idle(this is a b20/vtec)</TD></TR></TABLE>'

Okay, its running 32 psi at idle, and when I take off the vacume hose on the FPR it runs 42 psi.. is that good?

 

yes, you SHOULD hear it/feel it, the MOMENT my motor hits VTEC the tires just spin... and this is on 195/50/r15 kuhmo's sittin on heavy *** Si rims...

do you have any cel's, who builts the motor, did you plug the oil galley on the head, run your oil line?