Here's what happened, by accident I shorted the fuel injector harness (put power on a grounded lead) and now the car won't start. I checked the fuses under the hood and dash, all good. Replaced the main relay with a brand new one, nothing. I even swapped my injectors for the stock injectors and plugged in the stock ecu and still no start so I know its not either the hondata unit or the injectors. There's plenty of pressure at the rail but none goes through the injectors. My question is what else could I check for that controls injector pulsing?

Distributor was replaced just Monday so I know thats not it. Plus I pulled the plugs and there'yre dry and I'm getting code 16 (fuel system defective/unplugged) after a few cranks.

 

 

i would try to follow the wires and check the connections from the injectors

 

You mean the clips? I know they are wired correctly cause I triple checked when I was swapping injectors. I tried following the wire/s but after in enters a loom its just about impossible to follow where it ends up. I have the helm electrial book but its for a 98 Integra and honestly, even if it was the correct one, I can't understand it. I'm borrowing a nice multimeter today but I already know what the results will be: no closed circuit on injector wires. If its not a fuse and not the main relay, what else could be?

 

check all your ground connections add some if you need them..is your battery fully charged?..was this a motor swap?

 

battery is fully charged. It's not an engine swap but it is a ecu swap (from obd2a to obd1 p72).

Let me explain a little further, I dont know if many people know this but between the years 96-98 (obd2a) honda decided that the IAB (secondaries) solenoid on GSR's would be signaled when to open/close by the ecu as a 12volt output and be grounded at all times. This is the exact opposite of other years (94-95 and 99+) where the solenoid is controlled by the ecu as a ground and is 12v powered at all times. Well since I was using an older ecu if I wanted my IAB's to work I'd need to switch the polarity. I switched the wires to the solenoid so what used to be power into the ecu was ground and added constant power to the original ground. I tried to follow the wire inside the loom and spliced it at one of the connectors on the strut tower. seem logical so far, but what I didn't realize is that one wire grounds more than one thing...there it is. I've put everything back how it was and now my car doesn't start. any ideas?

 

anyone?

 

you should do a google search and call around any shops who may know what the deal is...i could post up a whole list of things that can cause whats going on but i think you said you checked most of them out..

 

Turboed,

Disconnect the injector clips. Get an ordinary test light and connect the clip to GROUND. Turn the ignition switch to ON. Carefully probe the 2 pins at each injector clip. One of the wires should make the bulb light. This is the injector feed wire. The other wire will not light the bulb. This is the injector ground wire which the PCM pulses to make the injectors work. Make a note of which is which for each injector.
If the test light did not come on at all, you most likely have a blown fuse.
If it comes on, go to the next step (you will need an assistant). Connect the test light to the battery POSITIVE. While your assistant cranks the engine, probe each injector ground wire. The test light should blink on and off while the engine is cranking. if it doesn't it's highly possible you blew the injector drivers in the PCM, in which case, you will need to try a new PCM.
Hope this helps.

 

spaceman, can you still post the list?

cmrvi1, the signal wire is the different colored one. one of the wires on all is yellow/black striped and the other is colored either yellow, blue, red, or brown. I'm going to have to buy a multimeter to test the leads but like I said, I know all it will tell me is theyre not getting power. I've tried a different pcm/ecu as well as different injectors and still no start. does anyone have an electrical troubleshooting guide for a 96-97 integra that could look up the circuit for the vtec pressure sensor, primary oxygen heater, iab, and pgm-fi (theyre all on the same circuit)? I have the guide but its for newer integras

 

^

 

ttt

 

alright this isnt for your car but maybe you could check some of these things out....battery terminal connections loose or coroded/leaking fuel injectors,faulty fuel pump or fuel pressure regulator/ignition components damaged/faulty or incorrectly gapped spark plugs/broken,loose or disconnected wiring in the starting circuit/loose distributor is changing the timing/faulty coil...if i find out anything else it could be ill let you know..

 

car is getting power. it cranks/turns over fine, just wont start. fuel injectors arent leaking and I doubt they are the problem since I swapped them out for my stock ones and it still would not start. I can hear the fuel pump prime and I've checked for fuel pressure by removing the pressure relief bolt at the top of the fuel filter. plugs are brand new and gapped to spec. It could be an ignition problem too but I know for sure the injectors arent firing. I took out the plugs after cranking and they were dry, no smell of fuel.

thanks for the help

any other ideas?

 

Just by the off chance, take one of the spare injectors you have take one of the inj clips put the inj in a jar and see if you get anything. just a thought. If nothing do the test light test that cmrvi1 sugested

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by warric_k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just by the off chance, take one of the spare injectors you have take one of the inj clips put the inj in a jar and see if you get anything. just a thought. If nothing do the test light test that cmrvi1 sugested
</TD></TR></TABLE>
huh? take the injecotr and clip and put it in a jar? what's it supposed to do?

 

back ttt

 

check to see if you are getting any spark from the distributor, just pull a spark plug wire out and pull out the spark plug and see if there is any spark when you try to start. it can possibley be your distributor.

 

distributor was replaced monday a week from today after the igniter went out. I actually WAS getting a very strong light/blue spark, never though it'd be an ignition problem but obviously i was wrong. car ran for a day before i fugged it up again.

me and my ideas

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cmrvi1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Turboed,
Connect the test light to the battery POSITIVE. While your assistant cranks the engine, probe each injector ground wire. The test light should blink on and off while the engine is cranking. if it doesn't it's highly possible you blew the injector drivers in the PCM, in which case, you will need to try a new PCM.
Hope this helps.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurboedGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I'm going to have to buy a multimeter to test the leads but like I said, I know all it will tell me is theyre not getting power. </TD></TR></TABLE>

did u already try this yet, any results.?

 

TurboedGSR,

I know you are probably very frustrated because you can't get your ride running, but if you want to fix the problem, you have to use a SYSTEMATIC DIAGNOSTIC APPROACH. In other words, you can't just assume you're not going to get power at the injectors. you have to VERIFY IT. I work at a Honda dealership, and even with the most simple problems, you have to use a logical approach in order to solve problems. Time and time again, I've helped techs who have had a hard time with electrical problems, only to find out that they did not check the logical, such as a blown fuse. Even after I asked them had they checked the fuses.
What I'm trying to say is if you want help, then you've got to give us the info we need.
Now, did you check the injectors with a TEST LIGHT? Do not use a multimeter at this point. It will not give the results we need. Did you check the positive feed to the injectors? With the test light grounded and the ignition switch on, does the bulb light up when you touch the injector positive feed? If it does not, check each and every fuse individually to make sure there are no blown fuses. Both fuse boxes (under-dash and under-hood). In the meantime, I will get an ETM (Electrical Troubleshooting Manual) on both the car and engine.

 

agreed

hey TurboedGSR,
where in dallas are you? i am available tomorrow afternoon, i may be able to help you out.

 

^ It would be much appreciated. I have one but it's for a 98+ integra. It appears they changed fuse box styles as well as many of the wire colors. According to my book the injectors are on the same circuit as the iab solenoid, vtec pressure sensor, and primary oxygen heater among others. I thought this was interesting since I got codes for them at one time.

I didn't use a test light because according to helm/honda, most circuits include solid-state devices that should be voltage tested only with 10-mega-ohm or higher impedance digital multimeters. States, "never use a test light or analog meter on circuits that contain solid-state devices. damage may occurs." I'm not exactly sure which are safe to use a test light on but the fuel system is part of a circuit that powers other devices so I figured i'd be safe and use a dvm. I did try to test if the ecu was even trying to pulsate the injectors but I'm pretty sure I didnt do it right. I'd though the yellow/black was the ground wire...glad i was using a multimeter there I'll try again tomorrow and post the results.

Something i noticed, when the ignition was off the resistance on the injectors was approximately 16ohms, but once i turned the key to the 2nd/acc position, it went to 0. it that what its supposed to do?

I checked all fuses under hood/dash and even replaced those who I though could have been blown like pgm-fi/ecu, back up, starter signal, and some other 7.5a fuse under the dash that was the only one that looked blown.

Guess I wanted an easy answer like, "try replacing your ____ relay," or check that hidden fuse behind the _____" looks like i'll have to follow the wires from each device checking at every connector.

cjmtrsports, im in the northeast part of garland. yeah any help would be great.

 

Turboed,

First most importantly, have to ensure your ECU wasnt damaged. Do you have the old one to swap back and do a check? And have to revert your IAB Solenoid back to obd2a ECU specifics.

Electrical Problems are a pain. But when you cross wires you have to check ALL WIRES WIRED from that point back to the source and anything connected there-in. Plus, ensure your grounds are good with your multi-meter (faulty grounds are common with wire shorts/crossed wires).

Just a couple of ideas. Good luck!

 

thanks, i'll test all the wires from each component all the way back to the beggining/end of the circuit. I've tried the stock ecu/stock injectors with no luck. The iab wires were switched back to stock as soon as I realized my car wouldn't start.

quick question, can an actual wire fry at such low voltage?